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Well, it is thee tree of knowledge and that is a major part of the lore and the most interesting. It is the tree of understanding on what is good and what is evil, and thus maybe eating from the knowledge one can commit evil it is beyond tempting to do so, and thus to know what is good and what is evil, we doom ourselves in our adventure to improve ourselves.

Maybe Adam and Eve is a image of what had happened, maybe it literally happened, maybe it is just pretty stories, we will never know I guess.

@Mangy

I don't think you understand the difference between having a disagreement and mocking someone. You see, Sam and I have a disagreement right now and that I believe in god and he questions his existence, without insult (currently). You on the other hand Mangy, are insulting and through a use of mockery and have made a general statement meant as a general insult.

Ugh, I might as well repeat myself then you're doing the same.

"Chickenhound, disagreements don’t have to be courteous to be disagreements."

By the way, what's the supposed insult you keep going on about?

Less involvement than that, even. Life on Earth is as a bacterial culture if God is a scientist. Mass extinctions have been introducing selective pressures to see what would happen, and are the only times He has directly interfered with and observed life on Earth. He either hasn't noticed humans yet, or just did, or will soon, because of our huge effects on the Earth's landscape and ecosystems over the past couple centuries.

I thought of that the other day, and I wasn't even high.

He usually tries to intervene during commercial breaks of X-File reruns.

what_chatholics_believe_other_than_the_creed.txt

@Algernon

It’s one of the few Biblical stories that seems to directly contradict our current scientific understanding.

That's why most Christians don't accept it as literal fact.

Let's face it. It's a parable. The story was never made to make logical sense. It was made so that ancient minds could grasp a basic idea with their ancient brains. Not so that people tens of thousands of years in the future could have a perfect account of everything that happened for their records

It's impossible to defend the Genisis story on logical grounds and try to make it sound plausible. It was never written so that it should be. Attempting to rationalize the story presents a ton of logical problems and questions that just aren't even worth rationalizing. It's so bad that if the Genisis story were true, it would present even more problems for the religion than solutions. That's why you've heard all these questions that nobody has provided an answer towards. There are no answers. Trying to answer for it is a complete waste of time for Christians, they have better things to do.

As I said: it doesn't even matter. The religion is not dependent upon it being true. Christians don't need to rationalize it. For most of the Christians I know; how the universe was created doesn't take away who made it for them, so they're happy to accept any other theory that makes more scientific sense. They'll just say "that's probably how God did it instead"

So it's better to just accept it for what it is: a story that was thrown together over the course of centuries by different people, all who gave their best ancient guess based on sparse information passed down to them from parent to parent which nobody even recorded (because the idea of recording history didn't exist until that point). Trying to debate how it does or doesn't make sense serves as little more than a distraction from the real concepts we should be grasping.

On that note: Why are people still arguing over it?

Our current understanding of morality, along with the concepts of ‘good’ and ‘evil’ is just an extension of that sort of behaviour which developed along with our increasing intelligence and greater reliance on complex social structures.

I agree. This I why I'm more partial to the idea that there is no "good god, bad devil.". Instead there's just a neutral god. No devil. Because good and evil are not forces of the universe. They're social constructs that we invented to define behavior in ourselves that we do and do not find supportive.

If there's a devil. He's us. He's our instincts that may lead to harm.

easily answered if you take the stance that God’s omniscience does not imply that the universe is a completely deterministic place, and that even God doesn’t know exactly how the future will play out.

I'm of the opinion that God…if we assume one on the biblical sense…is not omnipotent and does not know the future. Because that's all the bible stories show. I'm not sure where the whole omnipotence idea comes from to be honest

@Bionic

What if a god created evolution? What if a god created the Big Bang?

I may sound crazy, but what if our universe is extremely small, and it is just an experiment in a laboratory in a bigger universe? We could just be a big experiment, where our physical, mental, and emotional differences as humans are just controls and variables in an experiment set up by a greater scientist who’s hypothesis was that people would fight if they were different, because in the greater universe, everyone is the same

Sanest thing I've heard so far

@Chickenhound and Mangy arguing over what counts as an insult and what doesn't

That's enough you guys. You're both going around in circles with this.

Mangy, what don't you seem to understand? Calling his religion a fairy tale is tactless mockery. I think he pointed that out to you more than once.

You are stirring trouble right now. You're threatening to derail this discussion into a pointless banter between yourself and chickenhound. Also you are responsible for the impact your words make. If you don't see the vibe coming from anyone, that's because it's coming from you. And arguments don't have to be courteous, but neither do they need to be spiteful and your discourtesy is uncalled for

Now…I don't need you to respect religion. I don't care if you find it idiotic. But right here in this thread, I demand order and that we stay on topic. That means keeping the snark to a minimum.

I am not ganging up on you, Mangy. I don't even disagree with your points on religion so far. I don't have a problem with you, I have a problem with the verbal swordfighting in this discussion

And I mean this verbal swordfighting, lets walk through it:

And that's how all this started. As we can see, you are right that you didn't mock Chickenhounds entire religion. But with throwing words like that around, it's easy to see how you pissed him off with mocking tones and a little more tact could have avoided that

Now Mangy, I'm not putting all blame on you. I'll be fair and say this: Chickenhound you need to lay off as well.

I see that the story means a lot to you, Chickenhound, and insults to it may as well apply to your whole faith to you so you have a right to be offended. But you still could have easily just let it go several posts ago. You're getting far too worked up over what Mangy is saying. You didn't have to extend "Genesis isn't true" to "whole religion isn't true". Because while it may be technically incorrect to call the story a fairy tale, Mangy is right that his language has nothing to do with his point.

You both didn't need to keep pressing it, and then Mangy uses a bunch of statements that just made it worse which I came out and addressed.

You were both taking this discussion to uncomfortable levels on an inappropriate subject and I asked it to cease. I apologize if I came off sounding unfair and placed too much blame on one side in my previous post. But I want you both to calm your tits

You may resume your normal points and opinions. But without the accusations of foulplay

When I imagine how a person would say the first two paragraphs vocally, it sounds belittling. Almost like the person is indirectly saying "Your 'God' is nothing more than a child burning ants with a magnifying glass."

You have some valid questions, but most, if not all, are made rhetorically or sarcastically to the point where it becomes less of a question and more like an insult.

Edit: gah, blue screen explained it before I could

But I want you both to calm your tits

With that clarification, I will indeed calm my man-tits and apologize by my part in this row. I have never been the one to take false assertions about my character or at least what I perceive to be false assertions lightly and may take things too far.

I apologize, it's a known flaw of mine to not let these things go so easily. I'll try not to reply to vile mockery if I can and clam my tits.

@Going

Yer 2 slow.

Step it up

[Sanic quoting intensifies]

We can all agree that extremists on both sides of the fence are douchey assholes. My problem with religion is that (here in Murica anyways) religion has had a foothold in every part of Government including science, wars, policies of morals, etc. since the beginning. Now that there is somewhat of a shift in people wanting religion to stay out of said decisions, they are becoming bigger douchey assholes.

My problem with atheists is that they are acting like what is going on right now with the whole feminist movement. Fellings of being persecuted for so long has now turned into you are becoming that which you hated.

Actually, in the bible hell is refered to be a huuuuge pit of fire…

Blue Screen said:

I mean, the only reason we get this elaborate image of hell is thank’s to the wild imaginations of renaissance artists.

Actually, the two primary sources for hell come from Jesus' parable of the rich man and Lazarus and the Grand Finale of Revelation.

Both depict hell as the classic fire, torment, etc. that is the go to mental image when someone says "hell." Arguments continue as the parable is just that--a parable, and so it could all be allegorical as most of Jesus' parables are, while Revelation is the world's most famous mindscrew.

Dante's depiction has grown incredibly popular as well--that hell is defined as being totally separated from God, and since He created us with a need for Him, a total separation from Him is a hellish experience--more so after you've been shown he really does exist, and you'll never know the love, warmth, and comfort that He'll provide.

I could see that as a very fitting hell. You've rejected Him, so He'll show you every thing you'll miss out on--all the love, the joy, the comfort--that He provides. Then you'll be stuck for the rest of eternity with the knowledge of all those wonderful things you'll never get. Regret can be a far more powerful torment than any kind of fire.

Blue Screen said (again):

Why are people still arguing over it?

>asking this question
>in a religion thread

I see someone still believes in the one true Shiggy Diggy Doo.

Fuk u juses crust

-everyone

Controversy thread eh? Well, I will happily say that I am surrounded by Heathens irl. I'm usually okay with differing beliefs, but it gets annoying when everyone I interact with is on the opposite team. Or at least is only a Christian in name only.