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Guys
Maybe we should create a "Paint by numbers" To counter most of their arguments.
I mean, they keep using the same arguments 95% of the time, it should be pretty easy.

hey guys, real question here, how can you guys stand to be associated with a movement that has lead to harassment and death threats?

Because, honestly, I don't really care. Every group has extremely and unlikable people. Literally every one. There are plenty of gamers who harass (not gamergate, just gamers specifically), and send death threats. That doesn't make me ashamed to be a gamer. I don't see why it's any different for gamergate. If you abandon a group once it gets unlikable people, you won't stick to many for long.

I mean, death threats have been made to both sides of the argument and everyone blames the opposite side for making them (some even claim some people faked them entirely!) and it’s all over something as irrelevant as video game journalism. I mean, what’s the endgame? websites give good games good scores? i mean, if you’re a person who gets terrorized for what they believe in that’s hardly worth while.

I care because journalism represents a core problem in the industry, and that could have potential issues in the future of gaming. Some indies will be the new AAA companies, we want to out their corruption now (just for an example). And reviews can very well affect the sales of a game, if it's a majority, and the game doesn't have a reputation.

For the accusations of being faked, those are not baseless. There are evidence of the early claims, and new ones are occasionally assumed faked due to prior history, and often are eventually proven.

Shouldn’t it have been enough to stop visiting these sites? I mean, why not join a video game forum and discuss it with them?

Because that's ignoring the issue. It won't fix it.

Did it really have to get to the point where people had to be afraid for their lives?

No, and most didn't want it to, and don't want it to continue.

Video games for the most part aren’t even works of art. They are commercial products that are created to make a profit. Calling video games made big developers works of art is like calling action figures sculptures.

Painting was a business for much of it's history, and still is, even if that's not the full intent.

It can be both, as that's not what defines art. I personally define art as something that evokes emotions beyond the sum of the parts of what you are seeing.

So what I’m trying to say is that people are scared for their lives and police resources are tied up over making people whose jobs it is to review pieces of software meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator say “yeah, maybe this game is bad”. How do you justify that to yourselves?

I don't. Because I haven't done any of that. I condemn it, and want it to not happen. But I won't drop a worthy goal (not that I've really contributed anything) because of bad people being in it.

The entire concept is a fallacy, and there is really no good reason to apply it solely to this.

Also, I apologize if my attempt at textile doesn't work and this look stupid.

Thanks for reiterating the consumer rights stuff; it's important to remember that there are real goals at the center of this cyclone of fury.

Note: I snipped my commentary about liberalism and sent it to you in a private message, since it's not strictly relevant to this thread.

Aloha, people of this GamerGate forum! It appears that I'm extremely late to the party. Since the comment section seems to be focusing on up-to-date news and such, I think it might be best for me to post motivational music here. Unless that isn't allowed.

…Seriously, I don't want to do what's considered "shitposting". Is it fine for me to post some music here? If it isn't, I'll just be on my way…

Suspicious activity: An hour ago,a user named Ayria claimed that the sides of GamerGate is about casual versus hardcore gamers. According to Ayria's profile there has not been any activity for three years before making comments on GamerGate.

That’s not here, is it?

The forums do have a character limit. I can't recall exactly what it is.

Captain Blubber said:

…a movement that has lead to harassment and death threats?

Every modern "movement" has had bad apples. Feminism has Valerie Solanas, who attempted to assassinate Warhol and advocated genocide, spin the wheel and pick a crazy cultist to represent religion, etc. In fact, with the internet as it is, I don't think there's a movement, fandom, etc. that doesn't have harassment and death threats these days.

They are commercial products that are created to make a profit.

You just described every single piece of media ever created. People don't make pieces of art, sculptures, stained glass windows, murals, etc. just because--they do it because they are getting paid to.

How do you justify that to yourselves?

You can try and guilt trip anybody using that argument. How do you justify voting when all the elected officials are doing bad things? How do you justify atheism when communism killed so many people? How do you justify living in North America when millions of natives were killed over the land? Guilt by association is a fallacy. I'm not the one doing any of that. I'm not harassing. I'm not making death threats. I don't have to justify anything.

TripleA9000 said:

KYM has always been a neutral site…

The site itself is neutral. The people who use the site, on the other hand…

hey guys, real question here, how can you guys stand to be associated with a movement that has lead to harassment and death threats?

The same way that Muslims stay Muslims despite 9/11 or ISIS. The same way Christians stay Christians despite abortion clinic bombings or Fred Phelps. The same way Feminists stay Feminists despite Andrea Dworkin or Valerie Solanas.

When you are part of a group that comprises hundreds of thousands, millions, or even hundreds of millions/a billion people, the statistical likelihood that you're going to end up with a "bad element" hitchhiking on your movement quickly approaches 1.

And that's the other thing you have to consider: do the trolls on the fringes actually identify with these movements, or are they simply opportunists jumping on board with a movement to stir up more trouble?

Th..Thank you. This is the way I respond to "atheist" wherever call all christian pedestrians and murderers….

LW2 dragging up /v/ the musical may backfire in her face completely. Many of them are still so relevant it's scary, and they (especially the journalist ones, most videos after #27) sum up a lot of our complaints in an interesting and funny way.
give them a watch if you're bored.

Here

I was stifling thru Arstechnica turdpieces… I noticed in the comments… All the proGG had massive downvotes even with huge likes something of order ( -100 | +100 / -200 ) and antiGG vice-versa…. Are there so many antis there or vote-rigging by mods???

Y'know, I have a theory as to why the SJWs and the Journos are so intertwined;
Let's go back to before YouTube's creation; these game review sites rack in viewers, the viewers get the information they wanted and that's that.
Then YouTube is born.
Before long, people start uploading LPs and their own thoughts about video games, and slowly but surely the game review sites start losing traffic. The site owners realize this, and want to stay alive/relevant, even as YouTubers give more honest (IMO) opinions. They'll turn to anything…
…enter the SJWs
The SJWs want to influence the Video Game Industry, like what they did/tried to do with Comic books and Music, but they don't have a suitable platform to voice their thoughts. They cross paths with the desperate review sites. It's a match made in heaven hell.
The Reviewers publish whatever the SJWs are whining about, getting lots of unwanted clicks;
And the SJWs get their opinions out there, no matter how full of BS they may be

And because these "Game Review" sites have advertisements from the Video Game Industry, the Industry starts taking notes from them (and indirectly, the SJWs).
So what am I getting at?
If we starve the infested sites, hopefully this sets an example to the Game review sites that survived GamerGate. They'll steer clear of any SJW drama, and the SJWs lose their stake in Vidya.

I'll think that it fits the former more than the latter, considering that we're fighting an army of anti's, and the fact that we are not spreading the message enough. The more the "misogynist" harassment continues, the more anti-GG would pop up.

IMO, being pacifistic is not the right way to fight. I'll try to explain more on that later.

I was looking for more information about GamerGate from GitGud. It contains a link to a Google forum called Game Words Incorporated One of the topics from last year was titled On Gamers According to the timeline from GitGud the "Death of Gamers may have been planned for over a year.

kek

@dudes who responded to me w/ 10 dollar words & 5 cent thoughts.

>tehdoh
you misunderstood what i meant. whether or not gamergators are responsible for the death threats is not the point. it's that the issue itself has brought about death threats. I mean, once people started getting harassed shouldn't you just drop the whole thing and say "you know what? video games aren't worth this."

what is total victory? i have no idea what you guys are after if not just to have them clean up their act.

also your last paragraph is so awful it's almost impossible to read. i mean, do you read movie reviews? people are gonna like big budget mass-appeal films.

>gold member

once again, that's not what i meant, i meant just talk about video games. there are tons of forums for open conversations about video games you like/dislike including our own on kym. also lol at this

They don’t want discussion. You either agree with them, or you’re out.

and the fact that you guys downvoted my comment until it was hidden.

and your last point is probably the only thing i thought was well-thought out of all the replies to me. but i still don 't agree. as far as i can tell, non-gamers never get their reviews from gaming sites. they always get it from friends or advertisements. or it's covered in non-gaming sites with small gaming sections 100% sponsored by big-time developers.

gaming sites are for gamers, but gamers always claim to hate them. but they are still getting pageviews. so either people are lying and secretly reading these sites or gaming websites are an e-commerce anomaly.

also it takes every muscle in my body to not suspend that talk about "fallacies" like it's some sort of get out of jail free card.

you misunderstood what i meant. whether or not gamergators are responsible for the death threats is not the point. it’s that the issue itself has brought about death threats. I mean, once people started getting harassed shouldn’t you just drop the whole thing and say “you know what? video games aren’t worth this.”

There are people who have sent death threats to people who gave their favorite games bad reviews. Have you stopped gaming, if gaming isn't worth it? If you want to further the argument, you need to explain why this is different.

once again, that’s not what i meant, i meant just talk about video games. there are tons of forums for open conversations about video games you like/dislike including our own on kym. also lol at this

People are doing this because they want change, not just personally ignore the issue.

and the fact that you guys downvoted my comment until it was hidden

I'll agree, your first post wasn't bad enough to warrant that.

But if you constantly repeat your arguments instead of responding back, then I won't agree any longer.

and your last point is probably the only thing i thought was well-thought out of all the replies to me. but i still don ‘t agree. as far as i can tell, non-gamers never get their reviews from gaming sites. they always get it from friends or advertisements. or it’s covered in non-gaming sites with small gaming sections 100% sponsored by big-time developers.

Do you think review sites and magazines would still exist if they didn't affect anything and weren't read? Do you think early review copies would be sent? Embargoes would be placed?

And non-gamers aren't the audience of, well, games.

also it takes every muscle in my body to not suspend that talk about “fallacies” like it’s some sort of get out of jail free card.

I haven't read exactly what you're responding to, but a fallacy means that your logic isn't sound. It's a shortcut to explain why your argument is inherently faulty.

For example, the association fallacy is a short way of saying "something cannot be assumed because something in the same category or association with the initial object has that trait. There is no basis for that assumption, because that isn't the inherent definition of the category."

For example, you can probably assume someone in a book club enjoys reading. It's not a 100% confirmation, but it's enough to form an argument from.

Gamergate is not defined by it's harassment, and the harassment is not an essential element for a person to be labeled as such. So, it does not make sense to judge them for what they have not done. You wouldn't assume someone likes to read because someone else in Gamergate likes to read. And if a person, for some reason, absolutely despises people who enjoy reading, you wouldn't expect them to drop the group because they found that out.

Yes, that sounds like a stupid comparison. But it's valid as it uses the same basis and assumptions. Again, explain the difference if you want to further you argument.

Also, it's best not to use things like lol. Wouldn't you be annoyed if you were arguing in real life and someone just laughed at your opinion?

Notice how big teamwork has GamerGate investigation been. This has so far included the following activities:

1. Pointing about things that look suspicious and need to be investigated.
2. Gathering data which points at corruption.
3. Verifying data.
4. Documenting and archiving events.
5. Encouraging people on the same side and keeping up the spirit.
6. Explaining the problem we're in.
7. Calling out some of the bad apples of pro-GamerGate.
8. Identifying different kinds of shills made by anti-GamerGate people and the third party.
9. Reporting especially problematic individuals.
10. Making videos and articles.
11. Discussing and analyzing various events with each other on podcasts.

Did I miss anything?

Alright, Im game for talking about the so called "Fallacies". I mean, if you dont talk about them, it can be interpreted as Mud-slinging/Ad-Hominim.

I mean, everyone's arguments have to stand on their own merits. If you could show the flaws in our arguments, you could change some of our minds.

So… Are we going to talk about the Paint-By-Numbers arguments?

Watching this event, I come to the conclusion i must change the story of a part of the writtings I was doing, I will do a huge change and it's possibly that I must ask your help soon.

Heya guys! Here's some motivational music! I hope you don't mind. It's another Bayonetta piece; Perfect for pissing off SJWs.

You know, all the hypocrisy and insensitivity of the Anti-GamerGate people is really making me feel pissed off beyond compare, including stuff like this:

But I refuse to give up! We'll win this war one step at a time! I'm sure of it!

Okay, for real? You guys are aware that Don doesn't run the site right? He's just an admin, he doesn't own the site or anything.

Shhhh… Don't tell the SJW

you completely misunderstood my post, im trying to tell both sides that Don does not have the final say about what goes on on the site, there are people higher than so "harassing" or "warning" Don doesn't mean shit.

Shhhh… don't tell the GG fanatics who can't grasp the concept of parody.
That thread wasn't serious. Please don't tell them. It's hilarious how easy it is to trick these folks – they're looking for dumb, bigoted opponents, not reasonable people. When they find them, they don't stop and think about how obvious it is that its a parody.

you guys are either dumb as fuck or 80% blind.

duncanidunno is literally so much smarter and funnier than any of you can expect to be. i will respond to all your poorly worded and unwarranted self important arguments tomorrow.

also it's cool that there are death threat apologists itt, really cool haha.

[a member of my political party threatens someone with death]

haha what are you gonna do? lotta bad apples everywhere you go. i am still glad to be associated w/ these people haha.

[someone mentions that there are people who are afraid to go outside because someone threatened them over something as petty as saying some video games are misogynist]

wow, this old argument again? lol don't you guys know how to get over stuff? i mean we just don't want our video games to be compromised in a purely aesthetic way to accommodate more people. i don't want anyone to be murdered i just want them to shut up about something i falsely consider to belong to me

Please refrain from triple edit: quadruple posting. :^)

And you all know that duncanidunno guy is a troll, right? He doesn't represent anti-GG any more than people harassing feminists represent GG.

[a video game website gets sick of the tired arguments being taken to dangerous extremes]

i cannot believe we are being censored by the enemy!

[someone makes an honest comment about how things might have been taken too far]

wow, another sjw taste my downvote bitCH!

person: hey i heard gamergate is full of fat white asshole dudes

gamergator: actually, to be a gamergate all you need to be is an asshole, regardless of race or gender

person: oh i guess because it is a diverse group of assholes, things are completely fine

honestly, there isn't a day that goes by that i don't wish that gamergators would just realize that everyone hates them, not just because they are ridiculous assholes, but also becase they paint themselves as the victims of "video game corruption" like that is even a thing

man, who would have thought that the same sort of mentally ill person who would considered themselves a brony, would also consider themselves the kind of person who thinks being a gamer is a minority group

i like how that one guy considered being a gamer equivalent to being a part of a religion, i'm so glad that gamergators are so detached from reality that they don't even understand that they are actively taking part in a group that has been antagonizing people who don't deserve it instead of an offshoot group who doesn't represent the official holy scripture they believe in

Anyone that still calls themselves a "gamer" has probably not mentally progressed since the 8th grade.

[i say something and bring up points that should be fully addressed and not dismissed]

gamergator: fallacy fallacy fallacy fallacy lol checkmate you fedora piece of shit.

"Gaming is diversified!!" proclaims the 11-20 year-old manchild while arguing about the corruption the feminists have brought upon gaming journalism.

i thought a gamer was just a nigga who played games, i mean im a gamer but im not really pro-gg

look, i know you gamergators are prolly super mad because i made so many posts making fun of the fact you guys are associating with a harassment group that will stop at nothing to get a petty goal but that's cool, just go back to the comment section or jump in front in front of a bus like you promised.

Anyone who calls themselves that and thinks it holds any merit in any serious discussion, at least.

i'm just thinking of a gamergator downvoting all my posts and pretending like that some how makes a difference in the entire debate

[sees a post making fun of the GG movement]

maybe this downvote will teach you your place you friggin sjw neckbeard!

[masturbates to sexualized versions of video game characters]

video games aren't mainly played by misogynists

“A man should be able to hear, and to bear, the worst that could be said of him.”
― Saul Bellow

Look, I just hope we don't lose Gamergate. Can you imagine it! Corporate journalism reviewing games?! The very fate of the world hangs upon our war.

[someone studies how gender roles have changed throughout society and how video games are way behind all other forms of media]

gamergator: you are oppressing me as a gamer and i am so afraid of change that me and my associates will keep you from doing your harmless commentaries

The people of GamerGate are the reason I'm anti-GamerGate.

gamergator: if any website disagrees w/ me it's probably the website altering the code of the voting system because rational logical people who read my posts and understand the gamergate would never downvote me

[a man watches one of his fellow soldiers die in a muddy trench in the middle of a battlefield]

soldier: this is a whole lot like arguing online about video games