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Politics General

Last posted Nov 19, 2024 at 05:02PM EST. Added Jan 01, 2017 at 06:26PM EST
18034 posts from 293 users

Penis Miller wrote:


There is an entire army of people constantly working to either destroy or fuck over welfare In anyway they can, for often no discernable reason, it is not a secret why welfare isn't being improved upon.

They see relying on welfare as a personal weakness, instead of a sign of systemic failure. That's why they laugh at food stamps and mutual aid. Also, they might be racist – think of the expression "welfare queen" during the 80s and what it REALLY meant

Last edited Sep 18, 2021 at 11:16AM EDT

Yeah still it would be easier to reform the welfare system if there wasnt a massive army sabotaging the process because they are obsessed with removing it.

They could at least make a truce to allow some improvement but alas politics is not a place of civility, it's a fucking war zone.

No!! wrote:

There is an entire army of people constantly working to either destroy or fuck over welfare In anyway they can, for often no discernable reason, it is not a secret why welfare isn't being improved upon.

And all it took was a 4.6 Trillion dollars in additional spending which means that in a single year 40% of all current US dollars in existence has been printed. Which means that our yearly interest on our debt (which we have to pay or suffer economic catastrophe) is now at $405 Billion. To put it into perspective that's more than half of what we spend on the entire US military. Leading to a near 5.6% inflation year-to-date. It's easy to just throw as much money as you can at the poor to get them out of poverty, it's hard to then think about all the potential negative consequences of doing so.

Regardless I do believe streamlining the bureaucracy is a better option than what we currently have. But COVID relief has kind of put a major damper on my optimistic views on UBI unfortunately. I honestly am more uncertain and scared for the automated future more than ever before.

No!! wrote:

There is an entire army of people constantly working to either destroy or fuck over welfare In anyway they can, for often no discernable reason, it is not a secret why welfare isn't being improved upon.

And all it took was a 4.6 Trillion dollars in additional spending which means that in a single year 40% of all current US dollars in existence has been printed. Which means that our yearly interest on our debt (which we have to pay or suffer economic catastrophe) is now at $405 Billion. To put it into perspective that's more than half of what we spend on the entire US military. Leading to a near 5.6% inflation year-to-date. It's easy to just throw as much money as you can at the poor to get them out of poverty, it's hard to then think about all the potential negative consequences of doing so.

Regardless I do believe streamlining the bureaucracy is a better option than what we currently have. But COVID relief has kind of put a major damper on my optimistic views on UBI unfortunately. I honestly am more uncertain and scared for the automated future more than ever before.

Chewybunny wrote:

And all it took was a 4.6 Trillion dollars in additional spending which means that in a single year 40% of all current US dollars in existence has been printed. Which means that our yearly interest on our debt (which we have to pay or suffer economic catastrophe) is now at $405 Billion. To put it into perspective that's more than half of what we spend on the entire US military. Leading to a near 5.6% inflation year-to-date. It's easy to just throw as much money as you can at the poor to get them out of poverty, it's hard to then think about all the potential negative consequences of doing so.

Regardless I do believe streamlining the bureaucracy is a better option than what we currently have. But COVID relief has kind of put a major damper on my optimistic views on UBI unfortunately. I honestly am more uncertain and scared for the automated future more than ever before.

Most of the money did not go to the average person.

PPP loans were the biggest chunk of the 4.6 trillion.

BrentD15 wrote:

Regarding that automated future, it's what the free market wants, no matter how much it fucks over the average worker who will struggle to find work elsewhere.

Yeah… Which is why imo the people trying to remove welfare all together are utterly crazy

Of course the dilema I have with welfare worldwide is that I know in practice is a massive mess with multiple multiple problems, expensive and probably full of corruption to boot.

But I really really don't want gone

People need to realize that maximizing profit in the short term does not equal maximizing profit in the long term.

Most CEO's need to learn that in the long term being a cheapskate and being a "good CEO" are not the same thing, like even taking away the goverment regulation if you dont pay people enough this happens no shit.

Not that there is much way for companies to avoid turning into cunts as that is part of the design but they could at least think longterm

Last edited Sep 20, 2021 at 06:16PM EDT

I really don't think welfare queens are as big as a problem as it gets potrayed, or at least its not nearly as unsolvable as it gets potrayed its not really worth tearing the whole thing down is what I am saying.

Not that anyone is doing that I am just saying

They had a year of the media denying the laptop for them, you'd think it'd be enough time for them to come up with something less overplayed than "russian propaganda"

Last edited Sep 25, 2021 at 12:59AM EDT

Greyblades wrote:

They had a year of the media denying the laptop for them, you'd think it'd be enough time for them to come up with something less overplayed than "russian propaganda"

Next they're going to tell us that Russia is paying Islamic ninjas to assassinate our soldiers.

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Spaghetto wrote:

Next they're going to tell us that Russia is paying Islamic ninjas to assassinate our soldiers.

Well, they were working with the Taliban…

The virus is endemic, like the flu it wont go away and no vaccine will stay un-adapted.

Seeing as most politicians will not surrender the power lockdowns give them on thier own; it will last until the people demand it end.

Last edited Sep 26, 2021 at 09:56AM EDT

No!! wrote:

Yeah …this will not be fun

Eh, it seems liable to become less dangerous given time. Possibly even to the degree of being just another cause of the common cold, which is suspected to be the case for the "Russian flu" pandemic of the late 19th century.

Greyblades is right, though: restrictions will only last as long as the general public will tolerate them, even if the pandemic isn't "officially" over yet. This result is inevitable, regardless of whether it's triggered by governments overplaying their hands or people simply wanting to get back to some semblance of "normal". It seems like it may even be starting in some countries, such as Australia.

Spaghetto wrote:

Eh, it seems liable to become less dangerous given time. Possibly even to the degree of being just another cause of the common cold, which is suspected to be the case for the "Russian flu" pandemic of the late 19th century.

Greyblades is right, though: restrictions will only last as long as the general public will tolerate them, even if the pandemic isn't "officially" over yet. This result is inevitable, regardless of whether it's triggered by governments overplaying their hands or people simply wanting to get back to some semblance of "normal". It seems like it may even be starting in some countries, such as Australia.

Yep, the attempt to contain the virus failed because people whining about them being able to do whatever they want is more important than the public's health

Kenetic Kups wrote:

Yep, the attempt to contain the virus failed because people whining about them being able to do whatever they want is more important than the public's health

I really despise that one of the major reasons this pandemic has dragged on so long in America is because idiots can't go two weeks without tanning salons or dine-in restaurants or movie theaters or some other non-necessity most of which have a superior contact-minimizing method of

Talkie Toaster wrote:

I really despise that one of the major reasons this pandemic has dragged on so long in America is because idiots can't go two weeks without tanning salons or dine-in restaurants or movie theaters or some other non-necessity most of which have a superior contact-minimizing method of

Hey, if it's okay for politicians and Hollywood stars to break the rules, why not everybody else?

Spaghetto wrote:

Hey, if it's okay for politicians and Hollywood stars to break the rules, why not everybody else?

Because everybody else doesn't have the money to do so which is also a problem in and of itself.

Kenetic Kups wrote:

Yep, the attempt to contain the virus failed because people whining about them being able to do whatever they want is more important than the public's health

Bah, containment was doomed the second the virus was developed in the labs of a nation with the degree of corruption and institutional negligence as China.

Last edited Sep 26, 2021 at 07:56PM EDT

Greyblades wrote:

Bah, containment was doomed the second the virus was developed in the labs of a nation with the degree of corruption and institutional negligence as China.

The theory of it being developed in a lab is irrelevant to this, and the prc contained SARS, there is no reason they didn’t have the capability to contain covid, they didn’t because MUH MONEY

Spaghetto wrote:

Hey, if it's okay for politicians and Hollywood stars to break the rules, why not everybody else?

did I say politicians and celebrities were exempt from these procedures?

you can handle government business over the internet, acting is trickier but also acting and filmmaking are not essential services

Last edited Sep 26, 2021 at 09:05PM EDT

Kenetic Kups wrote:

The theory of it being developed in a lab is irrelevant to this, and the prc contained SARS, there is no reason they didn’t have the capability to contain covid, they didn’t because MUH MONEY

In china culpability can be fatal; They didnt precisely because it came from a lab.

SARS was a random natural disaster: the people dealing with it didnt have to worry about getting blamed and being gulaged so they could concentrate on doing what needed to be done.

On the other hand leak from a virus lab had everyone from the party head to the lab janitors on ass cover mode and the reaction went to shit.

Talkie Toaster wrote:

did I say politicians and celebrities were exempt from these procedures?

you can handle government business over the internet, acting is trickier but also acting and filmmaking are not essential services

My point is, the flagrant disregard for the rules demonstrated by politicians and celebrities is a major factor in these "idiots" reneging against them, too. If Pelosi can go to a hair salon, why not everybody else? If celebrities don't need to wear masks in crowds, why not everybody else?

They might not technically be exempt from the rules (except in California, where celebrities actually are exempt, when it comes to things such as the Emmys), but the total lack of punishment demonstrates an obvious double standard. People don't like that, and it undermines trust in the restrictions and the institutions that enforce them.

It's not the only factor in the significant growth of open discontent, but it's a large one, especially in the US. It's one form of a government "overplaying its hand"; in this case, by refusing to enforce its rules when the privileged break them.

Greyblades wrote:

In china culpability can be fatal; They didnt precisely because it came from a lab.

SARS was a random natural disaster: the people dealing with it didnt have to worry about getting blamed and being gulaged so they could concentrate on doing what needed to be done.

On the other hand leak from a virus lab had everyone from the party head to the lab janitors on ass cover mode and the reaction went to shit.

So because it came from a lab they refused to stop it
that doesn't make any sense

Spaghetto wrote:

My point is, the flagrant disregard for the rules demonstrated by politicians and celebrities is a major factor in these "idiots" reneging against them, too. If Pelosi can go to a hair salon, why not everybody else? If celebrities don't need to wear masks in crowds, why not everybody else?

They might not technically be exempt from the rules (except in California, where celebrities actually are exempt, when it comes to things such as the Emmys), but the total lack of punishment demonstrates an obvious double standard. People don't like that, and it undermines trust in the restrictions and the institutions that enforce them.

It's not the only factor in the significant growth of open discontent, but it's a large one, especially in the US. It's one form of a government "overplaying its hand"; in this case, by refusing to enforce its rules when the privileged break them.

I was able to get a haircut last year because I booked it to be away from other people besides my barber. And this was a few months in to the pandemic.

Does that make me elite and privileged?

Kenetic Kups wrote:

So because it came from a lab they refused to stop it
that doesn't make any sense

Actually it kind of does make sense…
Acknowledging the problem is a necessity if you are going to try and solve said problem. When the Chinese government has to solve a problem the people involved will be lucky if losing their jobs is the worst thing to happen to them. This creates situations where if there is a problem it is better to pretend it isn't happening than trying to deal with it, the bigger the problem the better off people involved would be if they just keep their heads down.

So, what does finding out where it came from do for us at this point? Just give us someone or something to blame? Satisfying your conspiracy theory about China deliberately doing this?
I'm no fan of the CCP, but this is something I doubt they would want against their own people, or even the entire world.

BrentD15 wrote:

So, what does finding out where it came from do for us at this point? Just give us someone or something to blame? Satisfying your conspiracy theory about China deliberately doing this?
I'm no fan of the CCP, but this is something I doubt they would want against their own people, or even the entire world.

It helps mitigate this happening in the future.

That said, I don't think it is likely it was deliberate, if the lab leak hypothesis is true, what is likely is poor lab protocol caused a leak.

There is also the question of should we have humans handling samples in gain of function research regardless of how many protocols are in place? It sounds like something I'd want done in a fully automated environment or not at all.

thebigguy123 wrote:

In Canada, today is Remembrance Day, in which we remember the atrocities inflicted upon the Native Peoples then and now, from residential schools to land theft.

Leaf here, even though I mostly seem to get involved in discussions on burger politics because of the gravity well that seems to have.

Remembrance Day is November 11th (Commonwealth version of Veterans Day.) Today is the National Day for Truth and Reconciliation.

I'm of mixed feelings about the whole situation.

On one hand, fuck the Catholic Church and fuck our government for consistently finding ways to fuck over the First Nations.

On the other hand, self-pity disguised as self-loathing is not going to do anything about it. We can acknowledge the atrocities in our past while looking forward as well. I do think the holiday is a good way to do the former, but we don't do a good job with the latter so much anymore.

thebigguy123 wrote:

Yeah… could be easy to mix them up with the fact they share the same name. I just wish Canada would give the First Nations self-determination. Until then, givng to charity helps a bit.

While every group has the right to self-determination, the only real exercise of this power is an independence movement… but that's not really practical for the First Nations. Some of them live on reserves, but most of them don't, but even if they did, you can't really grant a bunch of reserves dotted among a 10 million km^2 country statehood and have it mean anything.

I don't think there is one single solution. We have to take things one step at a time.

With regards to the residential schools system, I'm not opposed to reparations to anyone (or their surviving family members) who was forced to go to one. That's a start with regards to this specific incident.

Lone K. (Echoid) wrote:

Most of the money did not go to the average person.

PPP loans were the biggest chunk of the 4.6 trillion.

Not necessarily true. The entire cost is divided across a time frame with different acts:
Families First Coronavirus Response Act – March 18, 2020. The $225 billion legislation provided COVID-19 testing funds, paid sick leave, and food assistance funding.
CARES Act the first big one was a 2.2 trillion economic stimulus bill. Of that: $669 billion was dedicated to PPP – which offered loans to small businesses for maintaining their businesses and providing payroll – which, does help the average person considering most small business owners are still relatively average in terms of income. The bulk of the rest of the bill went to direct payments, of $1200 individualy or $2400 for couples +$500 for dependents. It also greatly expanded unemployment benefits by providing an additional $600 per week for 3 months.

Then there was the Paycheck Protection Program and Health Care Enhancement Act which had like $320 billion additional funding for PPP – which was only if businesses kept their employees.

Then there was the Consolidated Appropriations Act a $2.3 trillion package, of which $900 billion in stimulus relief for the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States with a $1.4 trillion omnibus spending bill for the 2021 federal fiscal year.

Then there is the American Rescue Plan a 1.9Trillion dollar plan that provided additional relief packages, but only 7 billion addition to the PPP.

So I think the overwhelming bulk of COVID relief packages went directly to people, even through PPP.

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