Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

I think we really need to keep this thread up and running.

Nothing is really happening atm. Canada wants to bail, Japan says let them, they're all meeting in Hawaii later this month to discuss the final negotiations. We still don't know what it says.

…Did… did this pass? I've heard it got passed.

Not yet, we need to keep telling to the people about this, and quickly.

Telling people isn't going to do anything at this point, the fast track passed. Some negotiators have already begun their weekend conference in Maui and Canada still isn't playing along. On Tuesday all the real trade ministers show up and real negotiating starts. That is scheduled to end on the 31st, so that's when the next big news pieces will be.

Even if this is happening, we still have some time to do something, call me insane, but i will keep doing this; thanks for the data btw lisa.

I do have to ask, why do you guys think big corporations think that the internet stunts their profits so badly? So much so that they deem it necessary to create these kinds of bills, and resort to bribing congressmen? It's like… "Oh no, these people are downloading our shit, overpriced thing! We'll go BANKRUPT!" ….No, you won't. The people who download your stuff are a much smaller minority than the people who legitimately buy it… you're not going to go broke if a few people download this thing they feel is not worth the price you're asking, or for whatever reason.

You misunderstand, they aren't afraid of going bankrupt, they don't like that they are losing any of their billions of dollars

Mmm… Yea,I get that… it's just mind boggling that they don't want to lose a single cent of their money, and are willing to ruin lives to make sure they don't. I suppose you don't become successful by being generous… It's just, I can't figure out if the people who write these bills are stupid, stingy, or just horrible people. Like, are they not seeing the full picture? Or do they just not care?

I think corporations completely lost the ability to see anything in the long term. I think they're losing more money trying to bribe the congressmen then ignoring the problem.

Basically this. They're idolators of money, blinded by their own greed.

TPP Trade Deal May Wrap Up This Week
Also, cosplayers will get eliminated if the TPP pass
This is seriously batshit insane.

i decided to write to my congressmen on the country yesterday, trying to explain how this can harm our country on a long term basis.

sadly since im not from america i dont feel like i got qualms to talk to american congressmen or demand them and help you guys over there, so all i can do is try to get that thing out of my country.

Me right now:

Their pockets are being lined by the big business owners, who become the only constituents they care about.. At this point, any law that impacts big business is not written by politicians, but by CEOs.

From what i have gathered, most of the senators are against this aside from the president and 2 other people.

Hopefully you're right, especially about Obama supporting it, because the republicans will never let it pass if he supports it, maybe that's his plan 0-_0-

>2015
>placing the blame on corporations rather than capitalism as a whole

Guys…

Just to point out the following:

>The largest country in both the bloc and the anglosphere is the USA, which is historically anti communist/socialist.
>Some of the reason people are against the TPP in the first place are the censorship, which according to history has also happened in communist countries (see the infamous disappearing trick Stalin pulled, and in general, state propaganda) and by extension the inability to protest when things inevitably go south (the Tiananmen Square Massacre and other things)
>Geroge Orwell, while sharing similar political leaning as you, also didn't like Commuism, writing both Animal Farm (a satire of Stalinism) and 1984 (which more relevantly, is the go to dystopia people compared stuff like the TPP and SOPA to as well as North Korea)

Note that these are examples of Communist countries so far. I don't think anyone has ever attempted Socialsm often enough to compare anything from History to, and you can argue that China as of now is almost a communist state in name only, having some capitalist influence and practices. With the USSR being broken up into pieces, people are convinced that Communism would never work out, but the paranoia associated with the Red Scare sill has people placing both Socialism as a slippery slope to Communism or other authoritarian government-centric ideologies

tl;dr: at best, History and Orwell has given people plenty of strawmen to claim that Communism is inherently evil/dystopic. and No one had given Socialism (or Social Democracy) a chance and stuck with it enough for us to gauge its viability. But that's a topic for another thread

Some more info on just the copyright side of it

Good news, Sierra club is helping us against the TPP, we need more help yet but this is a step
Here's the twitter

Things are getting worse by the minute, guys. We're going to be fucked in no time at this rate…

ALERT: FINAL TPP TALKS TO BEGIN TOMORROW

Trans-Pacific Partnership talks down to the wire in Hawaii

FUCK!

This isn't the time to get overly cynical or get a defeatist attitude. Just keep getting the word out to members of government how bad this deal will be for various things like healthcare and whatnot (I mean shit that's something Obama's been using as a major aspect of his presidency), and seriously do try and keep it calm while doing so as acting like it's the literal end of the world might cause some parties to feel like you're perhaps just a conspiracy theorist.

Comcast Killed The Ed Show For Talking About TPP
Here's the Twitter of Ring of Fire Radio
Censorship Attacks Again Everyone who uses Twitter, retweet this quickly.

I have some news:
TPP nations to tackle 4 sticking points in final talks
TPP secrecy causing concern
TPP talks stumbling on dairy hurdle

TL;DR
Apparently Canada it’s not willing to open it’s agriculture industry to the market that easy, thing that New Zealand it’s looking for. Almost all of nations on the TTP were discussing issues related to the intellectual property on pharmaceutics (they don’t want a data exclusivity that exceeds more of 10 years, the United States are the only exception). And protesters are starting to gather near the venue of the trade talks.

That’s all for day one folks.

Not really, this is in their long-term interest in unimaginable ways. They benefit from trade liberalization, and that is how corporations have come to grow so big to begin with.

Question: if passed, how does the TPP affect wholly original fictions made by small/new creators, in the sense of works featuring characters/settings/plot not based on previous creations? What if said productions take minor inspiration/references from others (or in TvTropespeak, Expy, Shout Out, Homage)?

Similarly, what about fanworks derived from the aforementioned works?

Thanks for your attention.

Fanworks would probably get the ax for infringing on potential profits, original fiction, I dunno.

I was trying to say, let's suppose you make an original work and as copyright holder you don't mind fanworks, are they safe in that context?

I dunno, but I think they're not since the TPP appears to having ISPs reporting infringements (see, youtube where even the owner can wind up DMCA'ing their own videos)

Oh great, before I read this thread, I was like, "well, if the internet's not making a big deal of this, it can't be too dire…"
Now I'm just metaphorically slowly rocking back in forth in complete silence, eyes unblinking.
I hate to be all dramatic, but I just don't really know how else to react.

Terminal 8 has found this article. It should answer your question

And here's the other Anime-relevant news piece

Rahaahahhahahahahah!

Tonight was a good night for us.

Nihon banzai, arigatou gozaimasu!

TPP so far:
>TPP fails today
>Australia, Mexico, France and Japan are in our side
>Chile won't sign the TPP unless this one give a "good argument" for do it
>New Zealand is our enemy, they started the TPP
>Wikileaks shares the data of the TPP on twitter

Today, internet was saved from the TPP
Now we still have some time to contact with the Youtubers and everyone.

>New Zealand is our enemy, they started the TPP

Don't be hating on us. We didn't vote for that shit. In fact we didn't get an option to vote.

The TPP was stopped cause of cow juice products. Hopefully this issue is never resolved and this deal is never struck.

I'm sure he meant "the New Zealand government". Shit, what civilians anywhere actually voted on any of this? Not that there's really a reasonable system where they could, of course.

This is why I vote for green parties. Fuck the red and blue ones.

Let's see, which officials especially from the land of Kiwis deserve our ire? Which ones deserve to be ousted?

Huh.

Well, I didn't expect to get into a mostly civil (and on-topic) argument in there, but I guess it helps the article trend? shrugs

So I was wondering what New Zealand;s hand int his beyond creating the TPP.

New Zealand wants everyone else to open their dairy imports because they produce a lot of it, but pretty much every country has their own dairy industry which would be negatively impacted by importing cheap dairy from NZ. Canada is particularly against it because they and the US have a special dairy access agreement between themselves due to a previous trade agreement, and Canada wants to keep that access for themselves.

Okay…but what does that have to do with IP laws (and drugs, for that matter)

The US wants patents on drugs to extend longer so other companies have to wait even longer to produce generic versions. This would raise the cost of medicine everywhere else, as NZ's PM admitted to the public last week. Nobody is arguing over the IP laws atm.

So basically the whole thing was NZ's fault except for the part that matters to the internet at large? (I'm not talking about the medicine)

NZ: They started it, and happily went along with the other suggested garbage, so yes.

Anything interesting pop up on the TPP today?

Remember how I said globalization is happening but we need to fight to make sure it doesn't go in favor of corporate interests?

{ The leaked document was prepared for a TPP Ministerial Meeting held in Singapore in December, 2013. According to the whistle-blowing website, the document “indicates a wide-ranging privatisation and globalisation strategy” whose main aim is to undermine state-owned enterprises (SOEs) – publicly owned corporations whose mandate is to deliver the public good with no or minimal commercial considerations. That will change under the TPP.

“Even an SOE that exists to fulfil a public function neglected by the market or which is a natural monopoly would nevertheless be forced to act ‘on the basis of commercial considerations’,” said WikiLeaks in a press release introducing the leak. “Foreign companies would be given standing to sue SOEs in domestic courts for perceived departures from the strictures of the TPP, and countries could even be sued by other TPP countries, or by private companies from those countries.” }

It's going to happen if all we're willing to do is post online about how we don't want it to happen.

"It’s going to happen if all we’re willing to do is post online about how we don’t want it to happen."

Which is why we also send plenty of correspondence. Or should, at any rate.