Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

I don't do it.
Do you tip?

If you don't tip in a place where everyone else tips, you're being an ass. Just because you don't support it as a practice, doesn't make your servers all of a sudden able to make a living without a tip. It's like parking in a handicap spot to demonstrate a belief that ableism is wrong to do.

If its a place (country) where tipping isn't common or frowned upon, feel free to not tip. We live in an age of easily available information. Finding out whether people do or don't tip in a place shouldn't be that hard.

While it's true that money should come from the employers my parents have always tipped generously and I will to the best of my ability when I get my own job and money. You can't change a system by not giving people money you're just hurting them. The only way to really change that is with the legal system, not paying people is just hurting them. Often-times the jobs that take tips are very bad jobs that the employees would find intolerable if not for the satisfaction they find in getting tips. So yes I see no reason to not tip other than just being selfish. Pretty much everyone I've met who gives good tips has worked in the service industry or knows someone who does and people who don't tip are often affluent or just detached from the lines of work that need tips and aren't aware of the value they hold over the lives of those who toil over them and put their lives and families on the line for a lot of the time.

As a former waitress I absolutely despise the practice of tipping in the food industry. I have no clue why anyone would think having your salary rely on how charitable your customers feel was a good idea. People think it encourages servers to do better at their jobs but it really doesn't. The shit servers are going to still be shitty servers no matter how much you encourage them with tips and the servers that actually work hard will feel cheated because half the time they will feel they didn't get a big enough tip for the amount of hard work they put in. How come we aren't applying this logic to other minimum wage jobs? Maybe because it's a system that doesn't make sense. A few restaurants here and there in America have popped up that pay their servers regular wages instead of paying through tips and it seems to be working perfectly fine for them. Hell, Europe has been doing it for god knows how long and we're not exactly seeing their food service industry crumble, are we? We need to stop this bs excuse that it increases the work ethic of servers.

That all being said, I think having a system where a worker is given minimum wage or higher and then an option for customers to tip a little extra if they want is a great system. The workers still have a regular income that doesn't wildly fluctuate from week to week and then they get a little extra reward for working well. Bam.

In Thailand

No one give a single fuck about tipping
and does Singapore. Because tip has been included in the bill.

tip3
tip/
noun
noun: tip; plural noun: tips

I dislike people who said that you are suppose to tip. No, you aren't, its a tip. Its an extra, optional reward to say they did a good job. Not tipping doesn't make you a bad person, it just means that you think they don't deserve an extra reward for their job.
Tipping is nice, obviously, but not tipping shouldn't be seen as a bad thing to do, its a neutral thing.

As I was saying you don't truly understand how much a tip means to the workers. That's how tips should be, an optional way to give workers a but of extra cash, but this is actually how they live. If they never got tips they probably wouldn't be able to support jack shit not even themselves with the "wage" their employer gives them. Not tipping is almost like denying people a living and stealing from them. As Crimson said in an ideal world they would get a living wage and tips would be an optional neutral thing, but it's not in the US at the moment. Unless you live in Europe or a country that does pay minimum wage not tipping could seriously damage people in a very direct way and you are responsible in a way.

Unfortunately the way the fucked up food industry set it up tipping ends up being mandatory. Literally, servers get paid around 2.60/hr in America. So yeah, it makes you a huge asshole if you don't tip. The industry took the concept of a tip and made it so it doesn't even go by the proper definition anymore. It shouldn't be that way, but it is. And you also have to keep in mind that in a lot of restaurants the servers pool their tips together and split them evenly at the end of the night. So say you're giving a really bad server a %5 tip (or no tip at all). Well, you may be punishing another server that has been working twice as hard as any other server in the whole joint. Does that system make no sense to you? That's because it doesn't.

So, in short:
- You order a coffee and don't put some change in the tip jar? You're not an asshole.
- Your server is getting paid 2.60/hr and you essentially deny them a proper wage by not tipping them? You end up coming out of it looking like an asshole.

- Your server is getting paid 2.60/hr and you essentially deny them a proper wage by not tipping them?
Why is it my responsibility to make sure they get a proper wage? I go to a restaurant to eat a hamburger, not to ensure all the employees there are enjoying a great quality of life.

Tipping works out waaaaaaay in favor of the employee everywhere where family dining isn't a thing. Casinos, places like Tilted Kilt, etc. Says more about the typical diner than wage laws imo.

I don't see much of an issue with it. Ideally, it serves as a way to improve customer service. The better the server, the bigger the tip, and vice versa for bad service. Plus, you're going to have to pay the piper either way. Either through tips or higher meal prices.

Crimson Locks said:

Your server is getting paid 2.60/hr and you essentially deny them a proper wage by not tipping them?

If a server's tips+2.13 don't equal federal or state minimum wage, the business is required to make up the difference. So the lowest they can get paid is whatever the minimum wage is for that area.

@Poochyena:

It's your responsibility either way. As xTSGx pointed out, it's either paying the tip or higher food prices/mandatory tip added to the bill (I would prefer the latter to happen). When you are paying for a product you are essentially ensuring the employees get proper pay. You're not going to change the food industry and get rid of he tipping system by not tipping your server, you're just going to fuck over your server's income.

@xTSGx:

Sure, that law is all well and good when it's enforced, but it's really not enforced well at all. If you're working for a big restaurant chain like Olive Garden and Red Lobster then sure they would most likely follow the laws as closely as they can because the law and the general public has a big ol magnifying glass on what they're doing, and if there's a slip-up they could face the whole franchise shutting down. But if you're working for a mom and pop diner they're likely to not follow that law. The family restaurant I worked at sure didn't, they'd probably have to close a lot sooner in the year if they did (it was a seasonal restaurant). If you've ever stepped into a restaurant's kitchen you will know that a lot of them don't follow proper health code and procedures, so what makes you think they'll care about the laws protecting the wait staff?

And I have to keep stressing this single point but you aren't going to change a broken system by not tipping people you're just hurting people, saving yourself some change, and sticking up the finger just on the grounds of "principle" when you're not actually making a statement. If anything's going to be changed it's going to be through the law and people out there are fighting for it. Just know that you not giving these people money even if they did a great job because of "principle" you're actually not going to achieve anything other than looking like a straight up dick and screwing up someone's income.

you aren’t going to change a broken system by not tipping people

Tipping is mandatory in the US due to the shitty wages and I'd still do it. But the fact still remains:

It's a broken system

It really doesn't need to work this way and it probably shouldn't. Many other countries do not make tipping a requirement and their customer services are not suffering because of it. So why do we do it if it keeps causing the same headaches over and over?

In New Zealand we don't tip. Tipping is unheard of. What we do have instead is the minimum wage system. Whether you work at a 5 star restaurant or a starbucks, you still get paid enough to get by in life and pay your rent. So far, I haven't noticed customer service quality in NZ turn to absolute shit compared to service in the US. Turns out employees have more motives to do their job right than just their pay grade

As an outsider to US culture, I really have to echo what Crimson is saying:

I have no clue why anyone would think having your salary rely on how charitable your customers feel was a good idea.

You and me both, Crimson. It honestly makes no sense.

Now rebelling against the tip in places you go to is not the solution no, but I'll tell you what is. All it takes is a move by the supreme court to pass a law enforcing mandatory minimum wage for customer service workers like other countries do. Can that be lobbied? Or is that too socialist?

See this thread

Butterscotch said:

All it takes is a move by the supreme court to pass a law enforcing mandatory minimum wage for customer service workers like other countries do.

The Fair Labor Standards Act already covers that.

If I have the cash on hand I always give a tip.

However depending on how well I think the server did at their job (plus my impression of them) affects the amount given. If I'm very impressed with them (Ex: they were polite, funny, made an effort to converse if they could, and even told a few stories) then they get a very gracious tip. If they were average, then just the norm. However, if they were AWFUL (Ex: unsociable, attitudinal, slightly rude, or "the squidward button"

Then they get a very MEAGER tip.

What I really hate is tipping by percentage. For instance, if I got to an expansive restaurant and get a single plate and a single drink and the price ends up being something like $40 you can forget getting a 10% tip. All you did was bring out two pieces of dinning ware.

I would have been pissed as fuck if I was paid a regular wage instead of tips as a server at any of the places I used to work, none of which were family establishments. Why would I want even ten bucks an hour over an 8 hour shift when I could make $4 + $200 in tips on a slow night? Those servers in other countries are still making a barely livable minimum wage, except they don't even get the opportunity for tips. None of you are considering the other side of this whatsoever.

My parents usually tip (even though I think that they do get paid somewhat more fairly here than the US), we do it based on how good the server was, taking into account if it was busy for them etc. It only really is £1 – £3.50 if they're great. Most places round here I believe distribute the tips evenly anyway. It's more of a polite thing to do.

@Lisa

what the actual fuck? That's how much you get from tips?

That actually makes me kinda angry and suddenly much less sympathetic.

Ive been hearing servers around america complain time and time again about being poor and impovershe'd and never making enough without the customers donation. I've been worrying this whole damn time if I've been tipping enough to help them live. And suddenly it turns out you earn as much as a professional career job by milking society from the sympathy nipples. Wow okay. Quit complaining then. You don't need my tip. You're doing better than everyone else.

@sacrem

Paying by percentage is what I'm using at the moment simply because it's simple and understandable.

As an autistic foreign tourist from a country that doesn't tip, it at least gives me an easy way of calculating how I should tip without having to consider so many different confusing social factors. Honestly makes it less awkward for me. I was terrified of over tipping or under tipping until my uncle gave me that advice. If theres a better way of determining a good tip amount for socially awkward people let me know

{ what the actual fuck? That’s how much you get from tips? }

I mean as a female I definitely have better options (murdered every night at Tilted Kilt, which is like Hooters except skanky Scottish uniforms) but even when I would do the occasional banquet or help out a few nights for this really nice restaurant my friend worked at, I made BANK. I know girls now who are cocktail waitresses at the casinos who make THOUSANDS a week in tips alone.

But that's really atypical of family restaurants, like I said originally. The struggling waitstaff going through school who can't pay their bills are ALWAYS working at a corporate place (like Fridays or Olive Garden) or some local diner. Depending on where you live though that might be your only option as a waiter, which is where the bitter feelings over tipping culture comes from. Families are not known for being great tippers, even if your service is. A lot of people even go out knowing they can't afford to leave a tip, and they say tipping is not required for them to go out and have a good time, which is true, but it does really screw those servers.

@Lisa

That still sounds pretty broken. Is there any balance in a system like that?

We're ending up with both people who deserve more that are not getting enough. and people who get plenty who are making an absolute killing. I can't tell either apart. I can only guess if they need more money. And if I think they do. How much exactly? I don't know what they already got

Because customers are poor judges of what the employee is fairly earning and how much they fairly should earn. The inconsistency should be proof of that. You've even shown me how the system can be exploited

20% is standard and nobody expects more than that but they generally also don't expect less. On the reverse side of the issue, a lot of shitty servers know that most people will tip 15-20% just because that's what you do, that's what's considered socially correct when you're out, so they don't really make an effort to go beyond taking orders and dropping off food, which is pretty poor service.

Correcting the issue isn't a matter of having it one way or the other, every reasonable option comes with its own set of serious cons. The options that seem able to please everyone are completely unreasonable to implement in our current more-pure-than-not capitalist economy. That is a global problem, but also one on which we are rapidly approaching a decision-point. The world is headed for globalization, it's a fact, the question is do we/should we/can we keep it corporate and profit-driven, or do we revolutionize and establish that certain resources and privileges are more like inherent human rights?

I know that sounds unrelated, but the servers/etc struggle to pay their bills because the things they're trying to pay for (food, running water, electricity, a safe home, an education) are privatized, corporate goods and services. These things aren't being cooperatively produced and managed in the most efficient way using the resources of the world as a whole, they're being sold for the most people are willing to pay without revolting.

Ya'll know I love to harp on this issue, but that's why it's so important for the younger generations, who are much more willing to compromise for the sake of everyone collectively, to be politically active at the polls for every single level of government. It sounds great in theory but what the fuck are we going to do when the world globalizes for the sake of capitalism and the wealth gaps become even wider? You think the billionaires of the world, who are currently utterly obsessed with racing to see who will reach a trillion first, are going to be like "oh gee we love the people of the Earth we will pay an 80% tax rate to subsidize the peasants citizens of the world who no longer have jobs thanks to technology and what few jobs remain will be ludicrously underpaid because that wage will not be adjusted for wealth gap driven inflation." Haaaaaaaaah. We're all literally fucked in the ass if we don't stop them, and we've already lost all hope on the TPP (although maybe by some miracle once the full text is released Congress will shut it the fuck down).