Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

Notice: I'm being sincere, not trying to bait. I tend to take everything literally, so please read this as if some sort of robot was writing this, rather than someone with any social skills whatsoever.

After looking through the comments of the Zamii070 entry, which contained the general combination of sensible opinions, angry opinions, weird opinions, and so on, I realized that some of the more extreme comments were arguably emulating the very behavior that motivated their behavior in the first place. That got me to wondering, would it be possible, in a specific set of circumstances, that the comment section of the Zamii070 entry would lead a self-identified SJW to attempt suicide in a manner analogous to Zamii070 herself?

PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS IS A QUESTION. I'm NOT asserting anything; I'm just trying to combat my own ignorance.

A few things to consider that could increase or decrease the likelihood of this hypothetical event:
+ Contrary to the "No True Scotsman" fallacy, a group is not made up of completely identical individuals. I believe it is fair to assert that there is a chance that a self-identified SJW who does not act like the associated strawman, but rather, genuinely wants to see injustice combated in a non-fanatic way. Now I realize the chance of this seems negligible, at I would agree, if it were not for the fact that a young naive person could bery well be unaware of the connotation associated with SJW and only knew of the definition created by SJWs themselves, plus the chance of such a person existing increases as the number of self-identified SJWs increases. Whether these factors combined create a non-negligible possibility is what I do not know.
- I haven't read the exact slew of harassment targeted at Zamii070, nor do I know whether or not any sort of conditions that may have caused her to feel more severe distress than one would otherwise. Therefore, I do not know how if those conditions would come up in the hypothetical scenario.
+ That said, I am also unaware of any risk factors that could feasibly contribute to the hypothetical scenario that did not occur in the actual tragedy.

So what do you think? Are there any combination of variables that would enable a second tragic event on KYM that would mirror the one in real life? And if so, what is the combined likelihood of all these variables being present; would it be astronomical, or merely one in a million? I realize this is basically just conjecture, but I'm genuinely curious to hear some answers so that I can learn. And I'm not saying that the comments section of KYM or KYM itself is dangerous or evil or whatever, just that it's not 100% perfect (like pretty much everything) so potential for tragedy exists (which I'm trying to find out) even if it turns out to be unfathomably small.

Well, I need to get going. I hope that this brings about an enlightened discussion rather than a flame war, and if I did anything that would invite such a flame war, please let me know. Thank you for taking the time to read this wall of text!

i could see it happening. Most of the sjw's who fucked with zamii are teens themselves, their minds and ego's are just as fragile as hers. Hell one sjw was already subjected to people ganging up on her in defense of zamii and she threatened suicide.

So it has and can happen again.

Is it possible? Sure.

I don't think it's very likely that the kinds of SJWs who would be that offended by the comments section would be browsing it in the first place. This doesn't seem like their kind of site.

So I know what the entry is about, how it transpired, but I did not look at the details or individual testimonials. After looking at Triple A's image, Hooooly Shiiit, how did it get spun out of control so chaotically? How did it go from a shade of skin and the lesser bulk of a character to discussion of drunk rapes? What specific hormones were released to trigger the specific neurons in the pathway of the brain to facilitate discussion waaaay off in left field? People take the drawings of an artist so seriously that they contemplate threats of harm or self harm?

We've done it. This is the new "no drawing of Muhammad". God is dead and we killed him.

The human mind is a strange thing. Virtually anything can cause it to snap under the right circumstances and conditions. Trying to kill yourself because some people insulted your self-identified group is completely illogical, but… well, that's about as useful as saying "suicide is a selfish act". Even for someone who's mental health is totally fine, thinking logically is hardly the default state.
If everybody self-censored out of the fear of potentially pushing some unknown unstable individual towards ending their own life, the result would basically be society as we know it shutting down.

I think there are two factors that would stop the same thing from happening on KYM. For one there are very few people on this site that identify as SJW's and for the most part it's semi-ironic. The few who do are pretty used to stuff like that comment section on that site. The second factor is that none of the stuff going on in that comment section is targeted at anyone. It's just blind rage. If we took all the vitriol from that comment section and sent it to someone's inbox or posted it on their wall then it turn very ugly.

Maybe? Probably not, at least not specifically to KYM anyway. I mean, no offense meant, but there are very few people on this site who'd care about a comment section, who are also as vulnerable to rage and harsh criticism. No matter your leaning, you're gonna find a group of people who take joy in making fun of you and what you post, and your gonna be expected to deal with it, period.

The blind rage and backlash isn't being directed to anyone, at least anyone as of yet who didn't in some way have some part in the Zamii incident, be it through commenting positively to news of her attempted suicide or negatively to calls to calm down or to the news that she survived.

Could a person who gets exposed to such vitriol be prone to suicide? Perhaps they are, but that's an unanswerable hypothetical and one I don't think is likely. Because honestly, when you engage in cyber-bullying like this, a push back is expected.

Now, if it were someone who regretted their actions in bullying zamii, and then received hate messages afterwards confirming their guilt, yes, they might commit suicide. But from what I have seen, there is no guilt in those involved, nor in those who supported the harassment campaign, over what happened to zamii. Merely indignation that they are criticized, and fury that she lived.

I think a person needs to feel the messages they get are valid in order to act upon them in such negative ways. Something I think won't be happening anytime soon.

^
Jesus fucking christ. I am baffled by how people like that honestly think they are in the right.

From what I understand, Zamii was harassed for months before the incident, which is plenty of time for depression and suicidal thoughts to emerge. I've had suicidal thoughts before as well (which is why you will notice I hate it when people harass suicidal people by calling them weak) and I can tell you, it takes a lot more than a couple of hateful comments in the span of a few days.

I didn't get bullied for a day or a week and think about ending it. It took years of constant bullying before the idea even crossed my mind. From pretty much ever person at that school, with no sign of it ending, or any help from the staff. Suicidal thoughts come from pain and depression building up over time with no signs of stopping or getting better. It has to eat away at your self-worth, kill your emotions to the point that you don't even remember what happiness feels like, and isolate you internally from the world. The main reason I didn't commit suicide it because I knew deep down that it will end once I graduate. (before anyone decides to post the "oh I hope you're alright" comments, I have long since moved past that point in my life and is just fine now, it's amazing what never having to see your tormentors again can do to your self-esteem)

Point is, I don't see the comments here over this recent even causing any SJW that doesn't have a seriously debilitating mental illness from committing suicide. If people were to harass them over this incident, and keep calling them trash directly (that's important) for months on end, then yes, I can see suicide happening, and the people who harassed them would be no better than the SJW themselves.

Anyone who would commit suicide over the comments here on KYM would have done so long ago from comments elsewhere. I know we like to joke about how SJWs can't function in real life, but it would take a serious mental illness that completely negates a persons functionality to be able to get a person to suicide over a page of hateful comments.

Well over 90% of our daily views are people without accounts.

Therefore the people who have accounts cannot function as a measurment for the stance of our site viewerbase. Not feeling welcome in a community due to a difference in stances is often a reason why people avoid community interaction.

That got me to wondering, would it be possible, in a specific set of circumstances, that the comment section of the Zamii070 entry would lead a self-identified SJW to attempt suicide in a manner analogous to Zamii070 herself?

"SJW" isn't something people self-identify as, the term is merely used as a demeaning term towards those who match a mindset associated with "SJWs" (although what defines it has gotten more vague). The point you make is clear, no worries, but it's just something to remember oneself of.

Well over 90% of our daily views are people without accounts.
Therefore the people who have accounts cannot function as a measurment for the stance of our site viewerbase.

I was basing my opinion more on the constant flow of softcore porn in the images; most SJWs don't care for that sort of stuff.

Fair enough.

Although don't underestimate a human's ability to want to jack off.

SJW is a snarl word that needs to stop being used; it is essentially meaningless beyond the context of "extreme social leftnut" these days.

OP Roy is completely correct, reinforcement of online hate and harassment is wrong and there are visible and clear example of reverse hate now being enacted against the original harassers themselves.

Retaliatory and reactionary behaviour is the reason several online debates and controversies have spiralled into out-and-out war, reinforcing an "us versus them" and "they did bad shit to us so we'll do bad shit back" mentality. In other words collectives are shit and can't be trusted to behave themselves.

The generalisation of both Tumblr and the SU fanbase as a cesspool of the hard social left special snowflake tumblrina is wildly inaccurate, but you will currently be downvote-bombed for saying that on the comments in the article.

This is why in any flame war/mass hysteria controversy these days I tend to be anti-both sides.

Well, the thing is I highly doubt that the kind of "SJW" would frequent the comment section of an article that lambastes them so much. One thing they are infamous for is their inability to accept dissenting opinions.

At most when someone posts something in the comments section that nobody agrees with, they get downvoted and 3 or 4 people usually argue with them. They don't get hate mail and death threats from hundreds (possibly thousands) of people. So I honestly think that kind of situation shouldn't present itself on this site.

Honestly, my two cents, but I really believe that most of the people who are still defensive about encouraging Zamii to suicide are extremely delusional.

Don't get me wrong – what they did was completely horrible and I am appauled by their actions – but these people are so deluded that they can't see what's wrong with their actions. Delusion doesn't mean you're seeing hallucinations or anything. It just means that your perception of reality is screwed up. In these people's eyes, they view themselves as having slayed a dragon – although they wish they got it right. To anyone else though, they see it as horrible people caught so much in their convoluted, sensitive and censoring beliefs that anyone who violates that space is eligible for intense bullying and harassment. To them, it's GOOD that she tried to kill herself, just like how many people would think it's GOOD if people in ISIS started killing themselves.

Ultimately I think pretty much everyone involved needs serious psychiatric help. Zamii needs help to help reconstruct her life from all of the damage these people caused and the harassers need help to get them out of this mindset that what they're doing is acceptable. Without this help someone is going to end up dead or in jail, so yeah.

It's hard for me to be objective here though. I've had a small taste of what these people are capable of in the past and I can't imagine dealing with that on a constant basis. What these people did is undeniably wrong and has me filled with absolute rage. I would probably yell at one of these people if they openly admitted to these beliefs in real life. But that doesn't change the fact that these people are extremely delusional and need serious, immediate treatment.

I don't know this person, I don't know what they're been through but if I was sitting next to her if she said that, I wouldve slapped her. Not out of hate but disgust. I'm part of the LGBT community, I know the anger, the feelings of betrayal and the I personally know the shear RAGE this world has inspired in me, I also know about the loneliness and lack of representation. This woman is not on my side or the queers or the racial minorities. SHE IS PART OF THE PROBLEM AND HERES WHY:

Hate. I didn't say anger because anger can be useful sometimes. In social justice, the fight is not against the whites or the men, or the "cissies" or the straights. Its against HATRED AND IGNORANCE. Against societal ideas that allow for abuse to continue. Just FUCKING LOOK AT THIS! this is exactly what is wrong with society. This hatred only divides people. She literally wants a person to kill herself over a drawing.

Here's the thing here: If sjw keep bullying people in the name of progressiveness they're legitimately going to get someone killed one of these days and it's going to legitimately be their fault as a human being. I do not give a shit what political affiliation you subscribe to; you can be democrat, republican, liberal, conservative, progressive, authoritarian, libertarian or whatever: you do NOT ever try to get people killed for the sake of your political beliefs.

To put it as bluntly as humanly possible here is why everyone hates sjw:
The sjw movement's ideology, "killing people is morally okay if it promotes our ideology!"

If the artist had killed themselves then I think the people responsible should have been charged with manslaughter.