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Scientists plan to clone extinct ice age cave lions

Last posted Mar 22, 2016 at 06:30PM EDT. Added Mar 11, 2016 at 09:12PM EST
25 posts from 17 users


South Korean scientists plan to clone the extinct Eurasian cave lion, using tissue samples from one of two lion cubs found preserved in permafrost last year. The man leading this project is Professor Hwang Woo-suk who has worked on successful cloning projects on domestic animals, He is also working to clone endangered animals such as the Ethiopian wolf, The Dhole and the Siberian musk deer. He also plans to the resurrected the extinct woolly mammoth.
Eurasian cave lions (Panthera leo spelaea) would have looked similar to modern lions but were slightly larger. They lived during the Pleistocene and were distributed throughout Europe, Asia and northwestern North America, before going extinct about 10,000 years ago most likely due to a combination of factors such as climate change and humans. They probably hunted the same way their modern relatives do and preyed upon the large herbivorous animals of their time, including horses, deer, reindeer, bison and even injured, old or young mammoths
Source, Source
What you do you think?
But whatever your argument may be.
DO NOT USE JURASSIC PARK AS A REASON WHY!
Jurassic Park is a movie. With fictional movie monsters. Real animals don’t kill everything in sight, or commit genocide. And cloning a big cat does not present the same ethical, ecological and biological issues in the same way cloning a dinosaur or a self-aware human would be. Do you really want be like these people As much I love Jurassic Park, using it as an argument not to clone an animal is like using 2001 a space odyssey as a reason not to go to space.

Last edited Mar 11, 2016 at 09:24PM EST

That makes fucking sense, seeing as how we're exiting a short ice age and the climate is warming. Of all the creatures one could resurrect, why are they picking the animals that died off for a good reason?


I don't know bout you guys, but just the idea of being able to clone extinct creatures I think is pretty fuckin sweet.
It also, as stated above, can be used to help endangered species, in some way I can't think of right now…

Last edited Mar 11, 2016 at 09:20PM EST

lisalombs wrote:

That makes fucking sense, seeing as how we're exiting a short ice age and the climate is warming. Of all the creatures one could resurrect, why are they picking the animals that died off for a good reason?

Unless they're actually planning to introduce a population into the wild (and somehow I seriously doubt it), I don't see how that's relevant.

But anyway, yeah, cool. Just make sure the fences are high enough, guys.

The possibility of ressurecting dead species would mean that we would be able to bring back a part of the biodiversity that we have destroyed; dodo, for example.
It has no harmful side-effects (unless released into the wild carelessly) and can be potentially a milestone for genetic research.

{ Unless they’re actually planning to introduce a population into the wild (and somehow I seriously doubt it), I don’t see how that’s relevant. }

The environment?? They have a hard enough time getting polar bears to act right in zoos, what are they going to do with an animal adapted for the ice age?? They can pick any other species, species we need or species we caused to die out, but they've picked a seemingly random predator from thousands of years ago.

It should be the dodo. It's pretty much the face of modern extinction. It deserves a second chance and a fresh island.

@lisalombs
I know that some scientist speculate that bringing back the mammoth would help to keep carbon trapped in permafrost from escaping. As for Cave lions they would probably help by keeping the number of herbivores down. Also keep in mind that while the world was colder and dryer during the most recent ice age it wasn't all that different from today. Also there is a real nature reserve in north eastern Siberia that could house cave lions and mammoths in the future.
Pleistocene Park!
@Smiley Dog
It would help keep endangered animals that live in small and or fragmented population genetically diverse.

Last edited Mar 11, 2016 at 10:22PM EST

Last I heard the glorious Irish Elk master race was also a candidate for resurrection.

It's another Ice Age species, but I'm sure if we can un-extinct prehistoric animals we can find a way to accommodate them.

So we can't even solve humanity's challenges with replacing kidneys, livers, etc to those in need, but they think they can take differentiated cells of something preserved with naturally occurring climate with no control over the conditions nor the contaminants, with the assumption the DNA is all intact and in proper condition while ignoring epigenetics which made Dolly the sheep a failure? Sound legit.

Last edited Mar 12, 2016 at 12:36AM EST
What you do you think?

Seems like a waste of time. If we're going to go full Sci-fi Original Movie, make it something cool and exotic. We already have plenty of lions. At least do a sabertooth cat. Or figure out if the mammoth one's actually going to work first.

While part of me loves the idea of bringing back extinct animals, I do have some mixed opinions about it, at least for animals that went extinct over 5,000 years ago and/or require large amounts of space. We already have hundreds of species that are alive currently but are facing extinction. While some of them have or are turning into success stories, such as the American Alligator or the Bald Eagle, most are in more desperate situations than they were just a decade prior. If we can't keep the current biodiversity that was able to survive in the current world's conditions alive, why are we trying to go out of our way to bring more species who may no longer have suitable habitat for them to live?

I agree with recently extinct species in most cases. I have doubts anyone wants the Rocky Mountain Spotted Locust back, but Dodos I believe would be a great candidate, as would most island birds, provided there was some habitat for them to go to, and they don't have other reasons they would just be wiped out ( brown tree snakes, malaria, etc). I have doubts good samples of the Tasmanian wolf could be procured, but that might be like the wolves in Yellowstone, where it is largly welcomed by ecologists but hated by ranchers.

For existing species that are endangered, provided proper samples can be obtained, cloning can help reduce the effect of genetic bottleneck. Any population reduced in size is going to lose diversity. If some of this genetic diversity could be brought back into the population, they would have fewer issues with inbreeding and better resistance to diseases. I doubt that there would be much objection to this, though, again it may be difficult to obtain.

@Jacob
Well if dodos were brought back, the people of the island of Mauritius would have to get rid of every feral dog, cat, pig and monkey to make sure their big brown pigeon survives. As for the wrongly accused thylacine aka the tasmanian tiger/wolf. Pretty much every aussie wants that bloody animal back, to the point that it might as well be treason not to want it back! It's pretty much part of our identity! It's on our beer, toys, video games and it's even on the Coat of arms of Tasmania!

You'd be forgiven to think that the animal was still alive!
Not only would it's return be great for us but also for the ecosystem of both tasmania and the mainland, as Australia is in dire need of it's native predators to control feral pests.
@xTSGx
This isn't about bringing back the coolest animals. Plus I don't think we have enough genetic material nor a good surrogate parent to bring back a smilodon.

Last edited Mar 12, 2016 at 02:02AM EST

Honestly I'd want them to clone these animal more for how their biology worked and mapping out their anatomy then actually trying to reintroduce them into the wild. What some people don't realize is these animals went extinct for a reason. Yeah, sometimes we fucked up and killed some species, but for the most part most of these Ice Age animals died off due to them getting cooked alive in their woolly hides.

Tyranid Warrior #1024649049375 wrote:

Honestly I'd want them to clone these animal more for how their biology worked and mapping out their anatomy then actually trying to reintroduce them into the wild. What some people don't realize is these animals went extinct for a reason. Yeah, sometimes we fucked up and killed some species, but for the most part most of these Ice Age animals died off due to them getting cooked alive in their woolly hides.

For the most part I'd agree with this. It would be better to just play it safe and keeping them in captivity, since there could be the risk of impacting existing ecosystems.
The news does sound exciting though, I'd like to see what will happen next.

{ As for Cave lions they would probably help by keeping the number of herbivores down. }

Release a newly cloned population of thousands-year-old cave lions willy nilly into the wild to manage herbivore populations………. because our current predators suited for this environment and adapted to their prey just aren't good enough and need ancient competition for their resources……..

It's going to be kept in a cage so they can take pics and observe it for a few hours before it dies, you know that right? The further cloned species are genetically from the surrogate species, the less likely they'll survive for more than a few minutes, that's why there's been so little success cloning extinct species thus far. They'll be putting what will most likely be an African lion through a full term pregnancy to deliver a species of cub far too big for her body which will be immediately whisked away into a metal box where it will be stared at intensely until death takes it miserably short life. & then it will be called a success.

@lisalombs
"Release a newly cloned population of thousands-year-old cave lions willy nilly into the wild to manage herbivore populations………. because our current predators suited for this environment and adapted to their prey just aren’t good enough and need ancient competition for their resources"
Didn't I say "Real animals don’t kill everything in sight"
Most our modern species we have today were alive back 10,000 years ago, It wasn't a long time ago geologically. Tigers, Bears, Leopards and Wolfs were still hunting animals we have today, predators also naturally do not like confrontations with other predators, plus all these animals cover different predatory niches. If talking were how much has change has happened in last 10,000 years it ain't much. In fact most of changes that has happened in the last 10,000 years since were due to humans. Also let's not forget that if Mammoths were successfully brought back we would need predators and modern lions are known to hunt injured, old or young elephants.
"The further cloned species are genetically from the surrogate species, the less likely they’ll survive for more than a few minutes, that’s why there’s been so little success cloning extinct species thus far."
Species? The Eurasian cave lions like their modern relatives are a subspecies (Panthera leo spelaea). This isn't going to be a like domestic cow giving birth to a gaur, This like having a dog give birth to a wolf.
"They’ll be putting what will most likely be an African lion through a full term pregnancy to deliver a species of cub far too big for her body which will be immediately whisked away into a metal box where it will be stared at intensely until death takes it miserably short life. & then it will be called a success."
Cave Lions were only slightly larger than their modern relatives and as much as I hate to say it didn't stop Ligers and other lions hybrids from being born and least we forget that lion cubs are depended on their mother and I doubt a lioness would tell the difference between a African, Asian or cave lion cub. And I seriously doubt they're going to put a newborn baby in a cold metal box.

Last edited Mar 12, 2016 at 05:03PM EST

{ plus all these animals cover different predatory niches. }

We have very few places left on this planet that even need wild predators, thanks to us. This part of this discussion really isn't up for debate, nobody on this planet would actually suggest releasing any cloned organisms into the wild. We're super careful with GMO organisms for the same reason. Nobody would do it intentionally, cave lions or mammoths or otherwise.


{ This isn’t going to be a like domestic cow giving birth to a gaur, This like having a dog give birth to a wolf. }

& I'm telling you it has been tried and failed. They've been trying with an extinct Spanish ibex subspecies for years, and they only went extinct in 2000! The only clone (out of hundreds of embryos) that made it to its delivery date died 7 minutes later because of a lung defect that is also exceedingly common when cloning sheep. Cloning isn't reliable at all.

If these people manage a successful delivery, it will be immediately whisked away to get as much data as possible before it dies. They're not going to leave it with the surrogate.

{ it didn’t stop Ligers and other lions hybrids from being born }

It's illegal to produce ligers in some countries because it's ethically controversial. It's professionally frowned upon almost everywhere. They have shorter lifespans than either parent and are especially prone to neurological and genetic disorders.

I honestly feel that the scientists should do it. Science is a beautiful thing when used responsibly and if humanity is able to pull this off, that would mean many good things for the conservation of a multitude of at risk and recently extinct animals. Of course, all knowledge must be used responsibly, and revived species must be treated ethically.

If anything, humans must invest much more of their efforts in learning about genetically engineered animals, so when the situation arises in which conventional methods of conservation fail, we will have a backup plan.

Last edited Mar 22, 2016 at 06:33PM EDT
Skeletor-sm

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