Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

As the title says. This disease of terrorism is not stopping, if anything it is getting worse, and deny it all you want the source is plain as day: radical Islam. What is the solution to stopping this? I've been hearing a lot of rhetoric meant to incite, inspire, instigate, and so on but not much to decisively solve this problem. So if you've got a solution share it here, debate it here, or at the very least contribute to a constructive discussion. Leave the left-right blaming, he said/she said stuff at the door and let's talk about what can seriously be done to stop this blight.

In broad terms you can only stop terrorism only as much as you can stop any other form of violent crime, which is never an absolute thing.

Right now, a big problem with how Islamic radicalists are being handled seems to be that the big government watchdogs can't seem to match up dangerous names with arrivals in and out of countries. Maybe someone outta take a pan and hit Homeland Security with it until they stop snooping on random citizen's phone calls and start actually doing their jobs.

With freedom!

In order to fix a problem, you have to admit you have a problem first. A lot of rhetoric and policies, and I do mean a crap ton of them, seem to be aimed at denying there's any problem at all, or if there is a problem, that there is 0 correlation between the terrorist carrying out actions and the beliefs that they hold.

Now, as good willed as they are at keeping down discrimination, there comes a point in which the elephant in the room must be addressed. Islam is being used to spread a message of violent extremism, a vehicle that could have been anything else such as nationalism, philosophy, or even identity politics. And a lot of these terrorists are originating from the middle east, or have direct and strong ties to that region, even if we acknowledge that most people who travel from there are not extremists.

The problem is, you can't connect these dots without being labelled a xenophobe, or more specifically an islamaphobe. And some would say, who cares? They're just a mislabel, and nothing stops you from still trying to do the right thing. Except that policy wise it does, because the first thing people do is try to remove your power or fire you for holding such beliefs, and then reverse whatever actions could have been taken.

The reason we can't match up dangerous names with actual terrorists is we're not allowed to even glance suspiciously in their direction without a discrimination lawsuit and a bunch of firings taking place. These communities, who see any scrutiny as an affront if not outright attack, have also been especially adamant about not cooperating with the authorities in these matters. We had an Imam recently be forced out of their position for even suggesting that maybe not every muslim coming to this country is doing so with good intentions. Another community in the UK refused to ever work with authorities to stop report suspicious activity, or even humor the suggestion to do so.

The reason terrorism is winning is nobody is allowed to address this sect of terrorism in this current political climate. It's like how the racist extremists were allowed to get away with so much because so many people turned their back on the entire issue for so long, up until the 60's and 70's when they were forced to address them. That is what these terrorist are today, just with an islamic twist, and until the islamic community is willing to admit there are bad apples in its bunches and relent to let the government protect them and every other citizen from these bad apples, we will get no where fast.

chugs beer posts at 2:36 AM

I think the biggest amount of help would be cultural awareness, and I think the Internet has already contributed to that significantly. I know that in my highschool, World Cultures/World History was an optional elective and maaaybe making it a required Social Studies class in highschool would contribute to having a more global outlook in life (whereas we currently only have US History and US Government as required Social Studies classes, aka "Only the US matters"). Perhaps focus more on Science education. But if that can't be done and parents reeeally want religion in schools, we can add a Theology class where we go over the major religions, how they came about, and how they function in the world today. Absolutely correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the only recent terrorist act that wasn't motivated by religion was the Timothy McVeigh bombing, and all the rest since have been motivated by religion? So I just feel if we had more global awareness for the political term 'Blowback' and understanding why it is that radical terrorists radically terrorize would be a step in the right direction.

One of the big factors of radicalizing islam are frustrated teenagers. A new generation who doesn't have anything on hands and thinks that the solution to all their problems lies in religion is more than willing to listen to those who claim that to love god, you should kill heretics. To solve this, you must get these youngsters off the street and raise them in a healthy environment.

Another factor is that we ALLOW them to exist, big companies earn too much money producing weapons to let them completely disappear. Fear sells, you know.

Third thing: DON'T ARM A GROUP TO DEFEAT THE OTHER GROUP!!!

If the problem was coming from the Domestic level, you would be on to something. But it sadly isn;t, and in 95% of the cases, the people involved aren't misguided americans who were raised in this country to have 0 understanding of the world and the US actions and 0 knowledge about islam.

In stark contrast, the majority of people committing these acts come from very worldly backgrounds, either immigrating to the US for education, work, or having had family from the middle east, and who are knowledgeable about their sect of Islam. The problem isn;t coming from people with no knowledge of the US foreign policy, it's coming from people who want to kill indiscriminately to make up for actions committed decades ago. And it's not being commited by those with an ignorance to Islam, but by those who put too much devotion into the faith.

You're solution helps us understand why islamic extremists target the west from their point of view. But the problem is regardless of the point of view, they still want to kill people, or force them to adhering to an ideology and set of behaviors and beliefs strongly tied to their religion. Do you think learning the religion and spouting off how "You ain't no Muslim, bruv" is going to stop these people? Because honestly, much like Timothy McVeigh, you could be a constitutional law expert and have a masters degree in states rights law, and you would still never have convinced him to not kill those people over the federal governments actions. Because people like this don't care what you have to say, they care about what their own version of the faith has to say.

To be honest, I don't know and nobody knows but a lot of people pretend to know. It's difficult to blame immigration because a huge portion of recent major terrorist attacks actually come from natural born citizens. Sure they often have middle eastern connections but immigration is not causing them. Yeah borders should be tight and monitored but being extra aggressive and straight up blocking certain groups from even entering isn't going to change that. And there's also the argument with refugees that the amount of people saved outweighs the terror blah blah agendas blah opinions you've heard it all every time these things happen.

Then there's war. How about we just blow them up? It's obvious ISIS cannot be allowed to do whatever they want. But it's also obvious at least to reasonable people that blindly attacking is also not an option. For starters as mentioned, above the US needs to stop arming "rebels". Without falter we've pretty much lost count of the terror organizations the US has armed and bred by attacking the area. Russia is actually smart in this aspect that they do not attempt to arm rebels. Attacking them outright however is a different story.

And ground troops is another super gray area. I for one am highly against using ground troops for pretty much everything nowadays. For example ISIS is literally Viet Cong 2 electric boogaloo. It's an environment they're more used to than us, guerillas without uniform, building tunnels, etc. Even worse than Viet Cong is it's not even a nationality and national pride it's an idea. A poisonous idea that enters the mind of people in the area in the form of extremist Islam. Attacking them has easily proven to fuel this idea. And one thing about ground troops people tend to forget is they're people. You're sending people's sons, daughters, grandsons, granddaughters, etc to die in the sand. Most people who support a war of the sort wouldn't even want to fight themselves, it's not that important. If it's not important enough to put your life on the line or someone you know on the line is it really important? Obviously no.

It's a really hopeless situation just like gun control. There are some obvious lines everyone knows but in between is all fair game. Life sucks. I don't like to take opinions on things I don't know and what no one really knows. If the answer was as clear as some think it is there would be no debate.

As a Muslim in the UK there have been many attempts to stop people joining Daesh. For example one attempt was "enforcing British values". This did not work because Muslims have never believed in nationalism nor "British values" to begin with and they would simply find it annoying.

However one method that absolutely does is to get education from local imams that what Daesh does is not islamic, for example they don't follow islamic rules of warfare. And there is evidence that it does work for example saudi arabia's 87 percent success rate.

There is only one solution ….GENOCIDE, because all of them are coming to kill us just like a guy on the comments section said .

@warriorman considering that a lot of imam are illiterates(at least in Africa it's very prevalent,and that's why FGM is recommended when in reality it's not recommended by the Q'uran) that can really help to avoid extreme interpretations of the Q'uran .

@KYFPMM

I know more about islam and muslims than you do, and you are arguing about it towards me. So don't try to argue about something you know little about.

considering that a lot of imam are illiterates

An illiterate imam is like a physicist who does not know mathematics, because one of the messages of islam itself was literacy and the gaining of knowledge. So to hear about an illiterate imam is simply embarrassing.

that can really help to avoid extreme interpretations of the Q’uran .

I can't tell whether "can" was a spelling mistake for can't. If you said "can" I would agree with you but if you said "can't" then let me remind you that this is a topic you know little about. Because what ever knowledge is used to de-radicalise is very common knowledge for a lot of imams, it is when a person reads the qur'an out of context do they misunderstand unless they ask an imam about it.

There is only one solution ….GENOCIDE, because all of them are coming to kill us just like a guy on the comments section said .

Let us apply your logic to another situation. For example there is a serious gun problem in the United States. The solution? Kill everyone who owns a gun. The problem is that your solution is too immoral to be applied in real life.

The first part of my post was because of this guy's comment
Therefore not my logic.
I did not misspell .
And yes I don't know a lot about Islam but you should not be a dick about it, the first thing you did to respond to me is to insult

Here's something that could help.
All Islamic Terrorists are Islamic, but not all Islamics are Islamic Terrorists.
I swear, at first I just thought of political correctness as just being something annoying, but durable, but now it seems like it actually might be the death of America.

Your comment itself is pretty silly.

The terrorists in both French and Brussels attacks were college educated with businesses of their own. Probably better off than a good percentage native residents. This whole "poverty makes you a savage" message needs to die fast.

College educated and employed?
And I said that is a factor that helps a person become radicalized alongside with religion and extremist brainwash.

This whole “poverty makes you a savage” message needs to die fast.

I hope you do realize that this "message" is what those who don't (want to ?) understand systemic racism/oppression combined with psychological/sociological factors like to twist around when people try to argue about it?
Right?

If Imams were telling Muslims that ISIS is wrong, we wouldn't have to put so many of them on watch lists for preaching radicalism. & radical Imams aren't the only problem, what do we do about fundamentalist Imams who marry off barely pubescent girls in religious ceremonies, who segregate the women from the men by corralling them into bare rooms behind curtains, who rule over domestic tribunal courts based on Sharia, and that's putting aside all the atrocities that are legislated in the Middle East, etc etc. Terrorism isn't the only part of Islam that needs to be stopped.

Even if we segregated the world and let them have their literal Islamic State, they'd still wage war to expand it. They're still in the age of conquering, not because of Western interventionism or Islamophobia or any other bad liberal excuses, but because that's their holy duty. Nothing will convince them it isn't.

As it seems people are sick of going over there to try and engage terrorists directly, that leaves the option of proactive defense. That requires intense screening measures for those coming from Muslim majority regions and even more intense scrutiny of citizens who actively travel to and return from Muslim majority regions. They're actively invading the West more than ever now, with camps set up in Syria and Iraq specifically to train citizen defectors who can return to Europe/the USA without garnering suspicion, so this step really needs to happen regardless.

I like how Black Graphic T puts it. It's like we don't have our priorities straight at all on this and it's just getting stupid. The way I see it nothing about this should be more important than stopping or at least preventing these attacks. I dunno how else to say it.

If that is a factor then why isn't it prevalent among the islamic radicals?

@tomberry
Systematic oppression wouldn't be even close to relevant in the case of Europe. When people try to apply that argument to every situation don't get surprised that it only devalues the message.

You people need to understand the very nature of Islam. Islam is not a religion that teaches co-existence. It teaches extermination of kaffir and total domination. Most of you have probably taught that Islam is only the Koran, this is wrong. What they don't tell you about Islam is that there are two other books that is of equally, if not greater importance than the Koran itself.
The Koran is the word of the Islamic god, allah. In the Koran allah says that mohammed is the perfect muslim and should be a model for every follower of islam. The two other books the Sunna and the Hadith are records of the life and traditions of mohammed, and he was everything but peaceful.

Also an important thing that you need to understand is Islamic ethics. Islam teaches one law for muslims and one other for the kaffir. Only muslims are human beings. So when the Koran says one should not kill other people, it only speaks of other muslims. Same with everything else, theft, rape, killing, and etc.

Also important to understand about the Koran are that the verses that contradict each other. The verse that was written later is the one that is true.

Muslims will always point to the peaceful verses in the Koran when faced with criticism. But they are lying to you, the kaffir. Islam encourages muslims to lie to the non muslims if it advances Islam. This is called Taqqya or "Sacred Deception". They will show you these peaceful verses without telling you that the later, violent verses are the ones that are true to them.

In direct relation to the "migrant crisis" that is more accurately a migration invation. Is Hijra. Hijra in islam when Mohammed traveled from Mecca to Medina and began his violent conquest of Jihad. Hijra is also the Islamic call to invade non-muslim lands to spread islam. What we are seeing is not a refugee crisis. It is the biggest Islamic invation Europe have faced since they broke through Constantinople.

Also, I am not a Christian. But ask yourself why there is not a single Christian nation left in the Middle East, where Christianity originated. Iran used to be Zoroastrian. Pakistan was once a Bhuddist country.

White Europeans throughout the world have become weak. Filled with hatred for the great civilization they have created and fetishize what is foreign. And the other peoples of the world are exploiting this. So if you are looking for a solution to the problem of ISLAM. Not radical Islam, but the whole of Islam that is the problem we refuse to address. We Europeans have only to look in the mirror and grow a spine again.

[insert Oswald Mosley's post here]

While that is… informative, it does not propose a solution or course of action towards stopping terrorist attacks. This is the problem I see in these discussions, so many want to debate why Islam is good/bad or why people who follow one sect of Islam are the true believers or not. It doesn't help this problem. We can make big talk about being educated about the Middle East and Islam, but I think after the DECADES this problem has persisted and the numerous attacks that happen by the month it is time to do something other than gather intelligence.

So in response to your post and the others who posted about being more culturally aware I respectfully disagree. We are VERY aware of what these types of people do, we're getting bogged down on the "why do they do this" when we should be getting bogged down on "what can we do about this?"

Unrelated side note:
@thelastmethbender: While your post was funny this is serious debate not general. Please contribute through discussion not quippy reaction images.