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And i don't mean morally wrong, i mean factually wrong. Now my stance on it, is that no, something that is subjective cannot be objectively wrong.

And most people would agree with me. However, that seldom is put into practice. Hell, even im guilty of getting into arguments with people over their opinions on things.

So how do you feel about the issue?

That depends on the basis of your opinion.
For example if that thing that you base your opinion is completely wrong you can say that your opinion is in fact wrong.

Yes, an opinion can be factually wrong.

I can think that 2+2=5, which is, mathematically and logically speaking, absolutely wrong (in most cases). It's a statement that isn't supported by facts, quite the contrary.

You see, there are cases where opinion are arbitrary. As in, you have the same facts (as there are only one facts) and different takes/interpretations of them.
And that's fine, as you are the one who makes your own informed opinion. It goes through your values, your worldview, your moral guidelines.
That's the subjectivity of it.

Whether they are factually wrong or right is a whole different thing. They just are, aren't, or are partially.

It really depends on the topic, in the most questionable cases even on personal preference.

For example the most sensitive topic: Religion. Should someone say "God is real", can be seen as a fact, opinion, and factually wrong; depending on the person hearing it. It also depends on how someone sees "God" and his presence in their lives. Is he more of a guide in life, or did he literally make the universe in 6 days?

Science has a much more blunt approach: It's a fact, or a hypothesis, with the latter being assumed true until proven otherwise. Which is another term you can take into consideration: hypothesis.

On which part I join myself with Triangle Mare's post, an opinion can be factually wrong.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but all opinions are NOT created equal.

Yes, it is entirely possible to believe something that is factually wrong. Example: Young Earth Creationists. While it is impossible to either prove or disprove that a higher being guided the formation of the universe and our planet, it can be scientifically proven that someone who thinks the Earth was created 6,000 years ago over the course of a week is plain wrong.

Unless a fact you learned says your opinion is wrong or right, the opinion should be considered neither until proven. Once you have learned a fact showing your opinion to be 100% wrong or right, that opinion is no longer an opinion but now a fact. All opinions, should not be considered right or wrong and should never used as a basis of fact. They are a means of finding facts, not being them. Only base what's right or wrong on your objective judgement on the knowledge of reality you have learned. Opinions are simply intuitive guides to finding more facts, and should only be used for guessing what's right or wrong -not being a basis of what is certainly right or wrong.

Yes, it can.
Flat Earthers, global warming deniers, holocaust deniers, anti-vaccers.
'Nough said.

I think that if something can be absolutely, objectively proven/falsified, then it is by definition not an opinion. Now as for the realm of opinions, it's obviously huge. Some topics are almost entirely subjective- like, say, which music is the "best"- and others should require actual objective arguments to back them up, even if the conclusion itself isn't solidly objective- as in things like which is the superior interpretation of theoretical physics.

If you say "2+2=5," that's not an opinion, it's a statement of "fact" that is factually wrong. 2+2=5 is not true by any means, but it's also not an opinion.

The issue here is poor wording with the "fact/opinion" dichotomy. It's more objective vs. subjective: "facts" are things that are objectively right or objectively wrong, while "opinions" are subjective and thus neither right nor wrong. 2+2=5 is objectively wrong rather than subjective, and is thus not an opinion.

I think you guys might be conflating objective claims with subjective claims. An objective claim would be "Global Warming is a hoax", a subjective claim would be "Global Warming isn't that bad"

yes. I get what you're getting at but yes an opinion can be wrong. most opinions are based on something and if that something is wrong doesn't that make the opinion wrong? Case in point: Racism.
You may have every right to be a racist and think what you want but that doesn't make that opinion right does it?

Opinions can't be wrong. Claims can be wrong. Claims aren't opinions.

"2+2=5" is a claim that has a proof.
"The sky is blue" is a claim that has a proof.
"I like yoga pants better than jeans" is an opinion.

Not all claims are black and white but that doesn't make it an opinion. "Yoga pants are superior to jeans" is a claim that can be debated and proofed depending on the agreed upon standards for pants superiority. Whether or not that eventual proof makes a difference to you is a matter of opinion.

If my opinion is women are inferior, are only sexual objects, rape is a woman's fault and they should learn their place. My opinion is based on facts from the bible. Just my opinion though. I have every right to think that and the only claim I made is that it's fact from the bible but everything else is just opinion. Is my opinion right?

ITT: Not defining your terms from the get go and then end up debating it for a large portion of the thread

Seriously, it wasnt a good idea to not define what you mean by opinion. We could be talking about entirely differ ideas (and we have been) and then end up arguing fruitlessly about them (and we have been).

An opinion in my definition is something which is inherently subjective, like "strawberry flavored ice cream is better than vanilla flavored ice cream." You can argue all you want, but at the end of the day, you may never convince them otherwise.

However, if their opinion has facts as the underlying basis for it, you still may be able to. For example, someone could say that, in their opinion, X movie is good. If they base this with things like dialogue, acting, etc, you can try to convince them that the dialogue could have been better, or the actors shouldn't have filled the roll they did. They still might think the movie is good – heck, maybe they like it for the very reasons you dislike it – but they might not as well.

>not even bibling correctly

"At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, 'Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?' They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, 'Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.'" – John 8, NIV

go back to reddit pls

"Women are inferior and only sexual objects" is a claim.
"I think women are inferior and only sexual objects" is an opinion.

Phrases that convey a specific certainty are called qualifiers, "IMO/etc" are qualifiers that signal the statement is only a personal opinion and not a universal claim. I think cats are stupid conveys a much different meaning than if someone were to simply say cats are stupid.

The alternative is a black and white world where you are either 100% wrong or 100% correct with every single sentence that comes out of your mouth.

An opinion can be shitty and uninformed, but what's most important imo is that your allowed to have and express it.

"Women are inferior and only sexual objects” is a claim.
“I think women are inferior and only sexual objects” is an opinion.

I said "my opinion is women are inferior"

so is my opinion wrong?

It took an American Pollandball to say this.

OT: Claims and Opinions are differences of mind, what part of your brain lights up when you say it. If I may be so bold, the only things that can be truly called "facts" are empirical data and axioms.

I've read the bible and I don't believe in it. good story though. look at meme I posted and think to yourself is anything I'm saying truth? Also reddit is shite

This is a series of two objectively wrong claims. "Women are inferior" is objectively wrong since biological and psychological differences between men and women are insignificant more often than not*, and "my opinion is" is objectively wrong because it precedes a statement that is not an opinion.

*technically women could be considered objectively inferior to men if you go by certain criteria like sperm production or average upper body strength, but that's a totally different argument

EDIT:

I’ve read the bible and I don’t believe in it. good story though. look at meme I posted and think to yourself is anything I’m saying truth? Also reddit is shite

So you admit you're just bullshitting at this point?

Apologies if I misinterpreted your post, because it's completely incomprehensible.

I'm making a point that an opinion can be wrong I never said I actually believed what I was saying.
Everyone knows I'm actually married and have been for 10 years so yeah. Lisa just likes spewing her man hate BS and I like throwing back in her face. She just admitted to her own BS. According to her If an opinion can't be wrong than an opinion that goes against her opinions is right. I say opinions can be wrong just like her opinions are wrong.

Just because you say something is an opinion doesn't make it an opinion. Objectivity and subjectivity are inherent qualities of statements.

{ Lisa just likes spewing her man hate BS and I like throwing back in her face. }

But you know what they say about opinions, right? everyone has one and just because I'm not giving my true opinion on women doesn't make my argument any less true.

You don't seem to understand what people are saying.

Just because you say something is an opinion, doesn't make it one. Opinions and claims are two different things, as Lisa pointed out.

Whether or not something is a claim or an opinion doesn't change whether it's a reasonable claim or opinion.

no I get it. you just don't get the point. It's an opinion. an opinion can be anything. it doesn't matter what the opinion is. this isn't a discussion about your opinion on this or that. OP asked can an opinion be wrong? I say yes an opinion can be wrong. i gave 2 different examples of how opinions can be wrong. It doesn't matter if I believe in those opinions just that those opinions can be wrong.

Racism and sexism are things that anyone can have an opinion on and doesn't make those opinions right. Lisa has every right to her "feminist" opinions, that doesn't make any of her opinions right. Even in her mind she is right. No one ever thinks their own opinions are wrong and they will think everyone else's opinions are wrong. So there are some opinions that can be wrong because of misinformation, lack of education or just plain ignorance.

A great Quote from Dogma:
Rufus: He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the shit that gets carried out in His name – wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it.
Bethany: Having beliefs isn't good?
Rufus: I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier…

Ideas and opinions are the same. An opinion can be changed. My opinions now on certain things aren't the same as when I was younger. Does that mean my opinions were wrong back then? Some yes some no. Everyone has had or will have an opinion on something and change their opinion on it.

Yes and no.
If an opinion is based on something that is inherently wrong, like "Since the Earth is flat, I think I could throw it across space like a frisbee", then yes, obviously that's factually wrong, since the Earth isn't flat in the first place. This applies to most things involving science and/or math, or history (Things that are factually true.)

However, if the opinion in question relates to something ambiguous, like "I think _____ does a bad job at _____", then it's not wrong. In this case there is no way to "prove" that ____ does a good or bad job at _____, so people are free to think as they like. This particular example gets more complicated when certain standards and expectations are enforced, but that's the general picture.

In my opinion, of course.

The main thing that's the difference between fact and opinion is that a fact can be proven right or wrong, while an opinion doesn't have one right answer. The only way an opinion can be technically wrong is if what the opinion is based on is wrong.
Now, there might be a lot of people that disagree with said opinion to the point that it's usually considered wrong, (i.e. Sandy Hook was a good thing that happened, those kids deserved to die) but's that an entirely different argument there.
Factually, an opinion can't be proven false because opinions aren't facts.

It depends what your opinion is on. If it's on something factual, like say, that the Earth is flat, then yes, it can be proven wrong. If it's something that isn't factual, like whether holocaust jokes are funny, then it can't.

I think the difference between the two depends on how they are justified.
Facts are justified by either objective, measureable data, or derived from logical arguments which are founded on axioms one accepts as true.
"My phone has a mass of x grams" can be tested by the unit of mass.
"I think X" is a tautology. It's true as long as you choose it to be true.
1+1=10 can be true OR false, depending on which axioms you choose. I.e. base 10 or base 2.
Opinions are more likely to to be determined by value judgements.
"Air should be pink" rests on your judgement of the existence of pink air.
"That cloud looks like a cat" rests on your judgement of what things look like cats.
So "that was a loud noise" is an opinion while "that noise measures in at 90 dB" is a fact.
Therefore, opinions can be illogical, but they can't be wrong OR right.

No I think an opinion cannot be wrong that is why its an opinion but people say an opinion is wrong per say if somebody says a blueberry is orange, but that's not even an opinion, that's just a false claim. An opinion is a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge. So if somebody thinks some thing and they say "I think.." before making the claim, then it becomes an opinion.
For example,
"The blueberry is orange"
They are claiming that it is factually orange even though in reality it is factually blue.
"I think that it looks orange"
You see they said I think and looks. They are not claiming that it is but it just simply looks like it is and the fact that they say i think, states that its just them that thinks that and they are not claiming anything.

There is also debate when it comes to belief.
If you say god is real, that is a claim and is debatable, though it is not a fact.
If you say I think god is real, than that is a personal belief and an opinion, because there is not fact saying god is not real.
A good example of opinion is this entire thread. This is just what people think. I say an opinion cannot be wrong, Im not saying It cant but rather I think it cant because this subject is an opinion based subject