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□ Valve's business practices Concerned /biznessman 04/28/15 Tue)03:48:46 No.292390784 2292393569 >>292392101 >>292392109 >2292392546 >>292392968>>292393062 >>292393196 biz/ here This post(s) will be a bit lengthy, just a heads up. Will do my best to TLDR it We need to talk about Valve No, I'm not talking about whether PC gamers are entitled or not. If you want to argue about that, go to a different thread. I want to talk about how paid mods are going to affect the PC gaming community and Valve. If this is really the best thing for the community Some of you think that paid mods are good for modders and the modding community. That paid mods will create growth in the modding community. I think in the SHORT TERM, this might be true. But in the LONG term, paid mods, under the current system, will be a giant disaster First, some things to point out paid mods are mostly for Valve and Bethesda's benefit, not the modders. >IE modders only take away 25%, and only after they generate $400 mods that break after 24 hours will not be refunded as far as I know, there is no sort of QA system for paid mods, nor is there a system for preventing the assets of another modder being used in a paid mod Got those? Okay, good. Now for he real argument Valve created the Steam Workshop as a place for modders to freely share their mods and resources, with each other, and other gamers. This has always been a free service, both for modders, and consumers. The idea here being that it encourages creativity and helps the community grow Now, Valve and Bethesda are attempting to manipulate that environment to produce monetary gain for themselves WITHOUT creating any new wealth or growth >b-b-but this will help the modding community grow! We'll get to that. Anyways This is known as rent-seeking http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rentseeking.asp >When a company, organization or individual uses their resources to obtain an economic gain from others without reciprocating any benefits back to society through wealth creation Concerned /biznessman 04/28/15(Tue)03:49:39 No.292390869 >-2923921092-2923929682-292393569 The Wikipedia page has a great analogy >http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking >"… a feudal lord who installs a chain across a river that flows through his land and then hires a collector to charge passing boats a fee (or rent of the section of the river for a few minutes) to lower the chain. There is nothing productive about the chain or the collector. The lord has made no improvements to the river and is helping nobody in any way, directly or indirectly, except himself. All he is doing is finding a way to make money from something that used to be free." Other examples include companies lobbying for grants and subsidies from the government (wealth is redistributed from taxpayers to companies, no benefit to taxpayers) and New York City limiting the amount of taxi liscenses to a fixed amount >So why is rent seeking bad, then? Surely since he owns the river he can do whatever he wants with it! You're not entitled to use the river! This is true, legally he can do that, but it doesn't mean it's a good business or economic decision. But why? Rent-seeking does not encourage productivity, and often allows for unproductive, risky behavior. Keep in mind that we're talking about the production of CONTENT, not money For paid mods, the most immediate effect of this is that many authors are pulling their content under the concern that other will steal their resources and use them for profit. This is already happening, so far as I know. People will take precautions to ensure that their goods aren't stolen It's already becoming clear that there is more or less a civil war going on in the modding community Concerned /biznessman 04/28/15(Tue 03:50:55 No.292390990 >>292391 420 >2292392109 >>292392348 >>292392495 >2292392968 >>292393320 >2292393569 risky behavior Rent Seeking allows a huge potential for something called the "Moral Hazard" object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/cato-journal/2009/1/cj29n1-12.pdf it's a long read, but worth it >"I might sell you a financial product (e.g., a mortgage) knowing that it is not in your interests to buy it. I might pay myself excessive bonuses out of funds that I am managing on your behalf, or l might take risks that you then have to bear" >"I might take risks that you then have to bear" That last point is important, because it is EXACTLY what Valve is doing with their return policy. They are selling a product that >might be low quality >might be incompatible with your mods >might break in the future due to other installed mods >might break in the future due to official updates might contain content that was used without permission And they are also refusing to provide any sort of QA regarding mods srefusing to refund you if your mod breaks after 24 hours >limiting the amount of mods that you can refund In other words, they are engaging in rather risky behavior, while making the consumer bear that risk. And believe me, when all those nice, paid mods that people purchased break due to an official update, there WILL be blood. If you think this is a bad PR disaster, you haven't seen nothing yet This may be a good cash grab for Valve/Bethesda in he short term, but in the long term this is going to corrupt the community, prevent growth (keep in mind Valve argues that this will grow the community), and result in a PR catastrophe TL DR It doesnt really matter whether PC games are entitled to free mods or not, paid mods are a poor economic decision in the long term because of how the modding community was originally set up and because Valve is doing next to nothing to ensure quality products and good customer service Now go shitpost and ignore everything I said and call me an entitled f-----

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Anonymous 07/19/15 (Sun) 05:28:15 ID: 09434 No. 5022380 225022523 File (hide): 1437294495761 gif (1.23 MB, 348x814, 173:407, 012.gif) this is f------ stupid skyrim (or any game that is modded) can be used as just a tool to express your love for the game or other s--- imagine hat i buy a pencil and paper o draw i spend my time and experence making something hat money i made selling it s of the communityt the people of the community i love can appreciate hen in this case i sell the drawing and ucking aber castell comes knocking my door asking for f------ 75% of the you have already paid for the pencil/game, the rest of the drawing was made by a person, not faber castell. so they have no right to try and profit out of my work. if they want me to make them money, then f------ hire me and give me money yourself

S--- Steam Paid Mods April 23,April 27 2015.,- 2015

NO BEND OVER DE PC PC しカしカ WHAT AN UNGRATEFUL A------! STOP BEING DEV SO ENTITLED! DEV PC XBO カ CO Co

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Steam Workshop Paid Modding - Business Perspective of Paid Mods

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□ Valve's business practices Concerned /biznessman 04/28/15 Tue)03:48:46 No.292390784 2292393569 >>292392101 >>292392109 >2292392546 >>292392968>>292393062 >>292393196 biz/ here This post(s) will be a bit lengthy, just a heads up. Will do my best to TLDR it We need to talk about Valve No, I'm not talking about whether PC gamers are entitled or not. If you want to argue about that, go to a different thread. I want to talk about how paid mods are going to affect the PC gaming community and Valve. If this is really the best thing for the community Some of you think that paid mods are good for modders and the modding community. That paid mods will create growth in the modding community. I think in the SHORT TERM, this might be true. But in the LONG term, paid mods, under the current system, will be a giant disaster First, some things to point out paid mods are mostly for Valve and Bethesda's benefit, not the modders. >IE modders only take away 25%, and only after they generate $400 mods that break after 24 hours will not be refunded as far as I know, there is no sort of QA system for paid mods, nor is there a system for preventing the assets of another modder being used in a paid mod Got those? Okay, good. Now for he real argument Valve created the Steam Workshop as a place for modders to freely share their mods and resources, with each other, and other gamers. This has always been a free service, both for modders, and consumers. The idea here being that it encourages creativity and helps the community grow Now, Valve and Bethesda are attempting to manipulate that environment to produce monetary gain for themselves WITHOUT creating any new wealth or growth >b-b-but this will help the modding community grow! We'll get to that. Anyways This is known as rent-seeking http://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rentseeking.asp >When a company, organization or individual uses their resources to obtain an economic gain from others without reciprocating any benefits back to society through wealth creation Concerned /biznessman 04/28/15(Tue)03:49:39 No.292390869 >-2923921092-2923929682-292393569 The Wikipedia page has a great analogy >http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking >"… a feudal lord who installs a chain across a river that flows through his land and then hires a collector to charge passing boats a fee (or rent of the section of the river for a few minutes) to lower the chain. There is nothing productive about the chain or the collector. The lord has made no improvements to the river and is helping nobody in any way, directly or indirectly, except himself. All he is doing is finding a way to make money from something that used to be free." Other examples include companies lobbying for grants and subsidies from the government (wealth is redistributed from taxpayers to companies, no benefit to taxpayers) and New York City limiting the amount of taxi liscenses to a fixed amount >So why is rent seeking bad, then? Surely since he owns the river he can do whatever he wants with it! You're not entitled to use the river! This is true, legally he can do that, but it doesn't mean it's a good business or economic decision. But why? Rent-seeking does not encourage productivity, and often allows for unproductive, risky behavior. Keep in mind that we're talking about the production of CONTENT, not money For paid mods, the most immediate effect of this is that many authors are pulling their content under the concern that other will steal their resources and use them for profit. This is already happening, so far as I know. People will take precautions to ensure that their goods aren't stolen It's already becoming clear that there is more or less a civil war going on in the modding community Concerned /biznessman 04/28/15(Tue 03:50:55 No.292390990 >>292391 420 >2292392109 >>292392348 >>292392495 >2292392968 >>292393320 >2292393569 risky behavior Rent Seeking allows a huge potential for something called the "Moral Hazard" object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/serials/files/cato-journal/2009/1/cj29n1-12.pdf it's a long read, but worth it >"I might sell you a financial product (e.g., a mortgage) knowing that it is not in your interests to buy it. I might pay myself excessive bonuses out of funds that I am managing on your behalf, or l might take risks that you then have to bear" >"I might take risks that you then have to bear" That last point is important, because it is EXACTLY what Valve is doing with their return policy. They are selling a product that >might be low quality >might be incompatible with your mods >might break in the future due to other installed mods >might break in the future due to official updates might contain content that was used without permission And they are also refusing to provide any sort of QA regarding mods srefusing to refund you if your mod breaks after 24 hours >limiting the amount of mods that you can refund In other words, they are engaging in rather risky behavior, while making the consumer bear that risk. And believe me, when all those nice, paid mods that people purchased break due to an official update, there WILL be blood. If you think this is a bad PR disaster, you haven't seen nothing yet This may be a good cash grab for Valve/Bethesda in he short term, but in the long term this is going to corrupt the community, prevent growth (keep in mind Valve argues that this will grow the community), and result in a PR catastrophe TL DR It doesnt really matter whether PC games are entitled to free mods or not, paid mods are a poor economic decision in the long term because of how the modding community was originally set up and because Valve is doing next to nothing to ensure quality products and good customer service Now go shitpost and ignore everything I said and call me an entitled f-----

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