Forums / Discussion / General

Ok last title was a bad choice. LOL

Anyways. I have a question for bronies. Why is it that fans that preach love and tolerance start not tolerating post that show indifference or even slight negativity towards FIM? I'm personally indifferent to the show but when ever I say that I get down voted. (I'm new to forums on this website so I don't have many down votes but it's happened on other sites as well)

You will not receive a real answer. Your question is one of obvious troll nature.

I have no intention of trolling. I just want conversation and reflection.

There was some lack of communication there.

I'm not accusing you of Trolling. I'm saying your question is that of Troll nature. Whether or not you really mean it, the question has association with typical Trolling methods.

If anything, I believe it goes to a combination of the brotherhood formed around a common interest and its perceived 'weirdness', leads to an atmosphere where they feel they have to be defensive because if they aren't, they will get torn apart by people who dislike the show unfairly.

Because people are imperfect.

If you expected every group to hold to their word 100% of the time, you'd become a highly disappointed man.

Its not that bronies are hypocrites, its just that bronies are mortal human beings. Humans are imperfect and sometimes screw up. Therefore, bronies can and will screw up and are also imperfect.

In addition, no one likes negativity when its directed at things they love. Just the same as when thousands of beliebers get their jimmies rustled when 4chan decides to troll his videos or when two children get into a fight cause one of them called the other's mom a "poopyhead," people don't like it when you talk bad.

If you don't want to be a jerk and cause other people to act like jerks, keep your negativity to yourself. If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it all.

BTW (cus you're a newfag), the karma system means nothing. Karma =/= people's actual feelings or validity.

Our motto may be love and tolerance, but that doesn't mean we're going to be doormats. We will defend ourselves as need be.

I can understand being defensive if someone says "PONIES SUCK LOLOLOL!," but that's not my point. On other sites including this one I've had the experience of getting down votes and negative responses to having a neutral stance towards the show. I think it's cool that a large part of the internet is rallying behind something positive but down voting someone not liking it or not being a fan is a little silly.

It's not that all Bronies even care about love and tolerance.

If you go to /mlp/ or perhaps Ponibooru, they hate anyone who even believes in that.

1. What Badistep said

2. It's humanly impossible to love and tolerate everything. Troll attacks and conflicting viewpoints especially

3. MLP never even suggested love and tolerance as a moral. It's just another meme that the fanbase created so it's not actually taken that seriously.

4. Some people are really trigger happy with that downvote button and press it at the slightest provocation even if they are not offended so don't take it personal. I blame the amount of trolls the Bronies here get for that.

5. Some people cannot take criticism toward the show and/or take it too seriously.

OP, have you been saying your indifferent to the show in pony related threads? Some bronies take kind of an "if you don't like ponies, why are you here?" stance in response to that sort of thing because they see it as intrusive and may downvote you for it.

And yeah, liked the others said, Not all of us love and tolerate and those of us that do don't always find it easy.

Considering that they are unable to practice the ideas within their own fandom, its highly unlikely they'll do it to outsiders as well. You have the EqD commentors againts the ponibooru ones, the /b/ronies against the /co/lts, and a lot of people against horsewankers. The fandom itself is so divided already with intolerance for eachother, that its impossible to pull off with everyone else. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. I personally don't hate neutrals or haters, as do most bronies here. The negs are just karma trolls, ignore them. Whoever it is, its nothing to bother yourself with.

the simple bought of that phrase even being taken seriously baffles me.

Originally, a year ago, I used to think like it was.
Slowly, this simple statement of a phrase got lost and when bought philosophically, meant absolutely nothing.

Really, there isn't much about, if its on the receiving end, or the other end, the little phrase "love and tolerate" means terminally, nothing to me now.

And that is the problem.
No legitimate criticism can be made of bronies, because too many of them assume their critics are trolls.

Well, I'm a 24 year old man watching a show intended for little girls.

Please excuse me jumpiness and oversensitivity. It just EVERYONE IS SILENTLY JUDGING ME ALL THE TIME :(

Although this has been true numerous times, it really depends on how you present it.

• "Hey bronies, I tried out a few episodes, but it just didn't appeal to me. Can some of you explain to me what interests you so much in the show? I'm wondering."
• "Hey bronies, why do you like this show so much? I can't see how a cartoon for little girls can appeal to people your age."
• "Hey bronies, why do you fap to little girl cartoons?"

The first one will most likely get serious answers. I've seen the question being presented like that multiple times and they always end up with an answer.

The second question is a doubt. He's wondering, but doesn't take the question seriously. While some will answer him, others will assume he's a troll. Here is really depends on the bronies in person and if they're willing to take the question serious.

The last question is obviously a troll, no doubt.

And honestly, after all the negative feedback people gave bronies and the trolling they had to endure, can you blame them for being a little cautious at times?

Oh, you should see how bad the Google+ pony community is.

People on Google+ exist?

WHO DA FUQ IS BADISTEP?

IS SOME BITCH TRYIN TO STEP INTO MY TURF?!

Probably some asshole working together with randoman, that name crosses my path way too often.

I've seen plenty of that myself, but I would say it's probably because most of us don't think we've done a whole lot as a fandom to warrant much criticism. We're not the only one out there that posts our content all over the internet in large quantities or get's defensive about things, after all.

@randomman and badsitrep

I know that feel, that Iambob guy was trying to jack my swag too before he changed his name.

> Go into thread expecting the usual Pony General fodder and subsequent locking.

It's just a shame. It's not like I'd ask bronies why they like the show; I've watched the show, I don't get it, but what you like is your business.
The problem for me is that when I make a legitimate criticism people immediately oppose me regardless of how valid my point is. For example, if I complain about sexualized pony images and their frequency in the images section, people assume I'm saying all bronies fap to horses.
It's not atypical of a fandom to do this. Just another criticism I have of fandom in general, I guess. (Fandom comes from root word Fanatic and thus would translate literally as group or body of fanatics, so this isn't that shocking to me.)

So in what way are bronies different?

If I go to the Homestuck entry and make a comment saying all the porn that fandom makes is bothering me (and they make quite some ships), I doubt the result would be any better.

In cases like this it's simply the cause of quantity. The brony fandom is currently the biggest, so the backfire such a comment gets is of course bigger as well. But that also goes the other way, as more fans of course results in more questionable content being made. But just because 2 or 3 bronies think you're a hater and/or troll or because 2 or 3 bronies like the questionable content, doesn't mean they all do. The problem here is, as always, generalising. The internet is full of retards who take valid points personal way too quickly, but those people don't make up for the entire internet.

We've had numerous brony discussions so far here. But lately nearly all of them went well. We don't get massive negvotes on one side and both sides uses legit arguments, plus both sides respect the arguments of the other side. Perhaps our brony community is more reasonable in general, can't really give a conclusion on that. But that doesn't take away that we have some members who take this stuff way too personal. Every fandom has their lesser members, it's just a risk of being part of a fandom.

>I just said bronies aren't different in my second post.
This is ironic.

Whoops.

Worst Typo ever.

@MDF

Your location when giving your critique of the fandom/show matters too. To offer an example:

I like to think you could safely give your critique of the fandom on the PG thread (as long as its presented well), as there are slightly more posters there who are fine with discussing the fandoms true merits in a rational manner and won't immediately assume hate (Myself, Randomman, Burning_Phoneix, Brownmane and Twins all come to mind). Not to say that you wont find defensive posters, just less.

But in other places, say the MLP comment section for instance, there you would find people who are far touchier on the subject and are not keen on having debates on that subject. So you chances of getting your point across there would be less.

i think the first few comments covered it all.

while bronies will generally try to love and toloate usually that doesn't include upvoting trolls and haters… downvoting just means they disapprove, not that they hate or get offended…

also, it's commonly used a anti troll mesures

but i think the deal was covered, there is no need to discuss it further…

Probably misread that.

My apologies.

Since the correct answer has already been addressed, I feel that I actually can't say anything that cannot be criticised as an irrelevant bump.

Sorry about this, but I've seen plenty of these kinds of threads in my time across the internet, and I'll always have something in mind that is reminiscent to what badsitrep presented.

Because bronies are inherently dishonest.

Normally, I'd correct you at how general and false that claim is, but I just don't care right now.

I used to be incredibly hateful of bronies.
Then I grew to do it as a joke.
Then when I realized other people thought the joke was incredibly hateful, I gave up entirely.

I really need to bring back Equestrian Ebert someday.
I'll convert the heck out of those sons of guns.
I'll convert ALL the non-believers.

Lets just say it was written in haste.

This mostly took place in general forums that may have only had a slight relation to Ponies, and some didn't relate at all.

I'm indifferent in a general sense. If the conversation moves to ponies I just say I don't care for the show but I have no particular problem with it except this one.

2 and 4, I agree. 3 I can't really speak for lo I don't watch the show, so I'll take your word for it. 5 I agree but in these cases, it was just mentioning that I do not watch the show nor partake in it's culture, but I never really gave any criticism. It's not that I don't like the show, it's that when I say I don't like the show, I get a lot of flack.

Hmmm… Never looked at it that way.

Did you know you can compress all those quotes into one post?

Some people cannot take criticism toward the show and/or take it too seriously.

It’s not that I don’t like the show, it’s that when I say I don’t like the show, I get a lot of flack

If it is not a case of people failing to take criticism then its a case of people taking it too seriously. You know: "He doesn't like what I like? Blasphemy!" that sort of thinking.

It's sad we have people like that. Whenever I see someone acting like that I slap them with a rolled up newspaper. If it happens to you, remind them that there is nothing that can appeal to absolutely everyone, MLP is no exception and people need to deal with that. Ignore those who refuse to listen to reason.

It's because bronies as a group are undisciplined. Believe it or not, adopting a code of ethics requires a little more work than simply saying you follow it. It's all too rare that you find a person who will practice what they preach. How many Christians do you know who will turn the other cheek when struck?

That was an unfair comparison. Christianity is a full-fledged religion, composed of centralized groups with clear standards of membership and a well defined code of ethics. It might actually be reasonable to expect christians to adhere to their own doctrines. Bronies on the other hand are more like anonymous, a bunch of people who happen to frequent the same places because of similar interests. There is no form you fill out to become a brony. The brony pope never passed the dogma of love and tolerance, some people just started squawking that saying at each other and it caught on (This is called a meme) Many bronies, including myself, flat out reject it.

There is also the fact that "Love and Tolerance" as a moral practice isn't even that well defined, no one has written a manifesto of what it means to practice it. Like I said, it's just a vague idea that caught on because bronies were amused by the way their mouths sounded when they said it.

"bronies were amused by the way their mouths sounded when they said it"

they should just adopt PLUR, you can't fuck around with that, not even trolls

It's also that (as has been proven by a large magnitude of people all over the world) for many people MLP has made a fairly positive impact on their lives. They made new friends or changed old habits for the better because the show encouraged them to. From that angle, it is not surprising that many people have a very strong emotional bond with the show because they attribute this personal change to the FiM, and they do so justly.

Now, when someone says that they don't like the show (in a hateful way or not), it seems quite understandable to me that such people could see such a statement as not just an attack on the show, but also on themselves, conciously or not. People who are less composed or who have a very strong emotional attachement to the show can get quite loud or even aggressive then. I also see it as possible that this can lead to completely neutral statements against the show, as OP pointed out, being misunderstood as negative or even trollish behaviour.

As Fifths pointed out, a major problem with Love and Tolerate is that it's not clearly defined what it actually means, and that no one is obliged to follow it. It's not a creed or a rule, it's just an idea, and not even a clearly defined one.

Personally, I like the phrase. While not actually coming from the show itself, it sums up its message quite well, IMO. What irritates me are people who flat out reject it, for reasons I completely do not understand. Then again, as has been mentioned already, different people interpret the phrase differently, since its meaning is not clearly defined and Bronydom as a whole has not reached a consensus on it.

Maybe we should do that.

Well, regrettably I can't criticize what you say because this time I'm positive it will incite a negative backlash.
I'll stop bugging this thread.

I think we should adopt "Try not to be a dickhead today."

When I called bronies an undisciplined, loosely amalgated group of people who like ponies, I wasn't complaining. Mlp is just a cartoon, it does not have the substance to form the basis of any serious life philosophy. We are not a rigidly defined group with universal tennents, and we should not try to be one.

I think the show has had an influence, mind you. Members of its audience, including myself, often tend to be more pleasant for having come in contact with it. It gave me the incentive to try to be less dickish, and that goes a long way.

Me too.

One question I have:

Not to sound mean, but… If there ever came a better show, would you switch over?

Consider the following:
Pony meme started on 4chan/b/ as a method of trolling. Other trolls on /b/ got butthurt mad. Bronies pop up outside of 4chan and trolls continue to troll bronies. Therefore bronies got butthurt mad. So now bronies think anyone who is indifferent is a troll and most of the time they are right but ever once and a while it's not a troll.
Also consider this:
Why post about something you could care less about. If you don't like Homestuck do you post that you don't like it in a thread about homestuck? Do you think that homestuck fans would great you with positive replies? Only the very stupid or a troll does something like that so hence bronies assume troll.

@MDF and Quantum

Well, regrettably I can’t criticize what you say because this time I’m positive it will incite a negative backlash.
I’ll stop bugging this thread.

Me too.

Your defeatist attitudes cease to amuse me. Just let it out already, we know you want to.

I'm actually annoyed that you find it impossible to maturely share differing opinions without irrational repercussion from those you share it with. I was hoping that this thread would show that Bronies actually can handle criticism…or at least I can

I haven't had time to read the whole thread so I'm not sure how much of this has been said already.

The most important thing to keep in mind when interacting with bronies is that we are not a cult, nor a hivemind. The opinions of each individual are solely their own; just because one brony thinks or acts a certain way doesn't mean they all do. Some of them will try to rally the others to "love + tolerate" better; some despise the concept. Some of them are just asshats that can't accept that other people can have different opinions from them, and those would be the people downvoting you, OP.

No one should be downvoting anyone who claims not to like the show. There's nothing that's liked by everyone, and it is not unreasonable if the show is not to your tastes or if you're indifferent towards it. People who fail to realize this need to grow up.