Forums / Discussion / Meme Research

Thank you for answering.

Again, i am sorry that i had to act like this.
But why didn't someone answer before?
I hate doing the "do it, or i'll do it myself"-act, but it seemed nessecary to get finally answers.
The fact that only now someone reacts proves that.

Ok mods, you had time enough to answer. I will wait until sunday, if you still don’t answer by then i will update the entry myself and hope other editors will correct any eventual mistakes.
I will accept the ban if i go too far for you mods.

Ditch the tough guy act and stop thinking we're some communist party that will ban you for making additions to an entry. You weren't gonna get banned. At the worst case you would be removed as an editor but I doubt even that would happen.

But why didn’t someone answer before?

You're implying we have to reply for discussion to flow, which is not the case. Talk a bit back and forth, bring forward arguments what you think should be added or not, and how the header should be written alongside its references. Some of you are doing that, and that's good, but from what I see discussion on an addition then quickly seems to die.

Currently GamerGate has gotten less notable to outsiders. You won't know what's going on in GamerGate unless you actively follow it. Many news sites stopped caring and don't document GamerGate anymore, whereas in the past GamerGate related events often were met with articles. It's difficult to call anything GamerGate does nowadays notable from an outsider perspective.

That's where you come in. We mods don't follow GamerGate, so when someone then brings forward and idea to add lets say CalgaryExpo as a recent example, we mods can't say what happened let alone if it's notable at all.

So when you come up with an idea, don't just throw a barebones idea. Show articles, external references, big names getting involved, anything. Show and Explain why you believe this should be discussed for addition.

Alright, I'll then run over the last month worth of suggestions since my last post:

I am planning to create an entry for #notyourshield.
Maybe i can put a mention of Tim Schafer in there.

You created an event entry for that and the Shafer header fits in well. Good choice on that entry.

Tim Schafer may need a person entry

Probs best to leave to a seperate Meme Research thread. But if you just want to make an entry for him based on the stuff you listed, I say go ahead.

Should we add something about the reddit modtalk leaks?

Please elaborate on what you all wish to add with this, because from my knowledge there was a lot of shit over the Reddit mods. You can probably make a header likewise to the "Censorship on 4chan" one, but please explain more first.

Idea: update the block bot part of the entry with information regarding Chris Mancil.

Who? Yeah I'm not gonna get much if you're just throwing me a name. Please explain a bit more first and what you exactly wish to add.

I am sorry for bringing this up again but can we please FINALLY put a header for the charities?

That's fine. Also don't forget the GameJam one which led to Vivian James. (Odds are that I am gonna summarize your addition, but we'll see.)

Maybe create an entry for the gamergateishate/love t-shirts, or is that too much?

Were these shirts a big hit? If so, yeah sure. But show me some stuff first. Otherwise a header can work. We have an entry for #Metalgate and a header for #Pizzagate. I'm sure we can figure out the correct decision.

When is the “Exodus to 8chan” section of this article going to be updated? /gamergate/ is kill, and /gamergatehq/ and /gg/ has risen. I’m very sure this counts as a major development.

If someone can grab some timestamps and discussions over what led to this, he's free to update the header. Not stopping you.

update the blockbot header with the lawsuit, wich caused the blockbot move it’s domain name.

That's fine.

add opEarthQuake to the entry

You gave details on the operation, but that still isn't telling me if the plan actually worked and if people actually documented the events (non-GG parties I mean with that). Please tell me first what opEarthQuake actually succeeded in doing. And likewise to with the shirts hashtag, if it's big enough you can consider a seperate entry to avoid clutter.

Suggested update: The CalgaryExpo drama.

Das cool, but please explain what happened first.

Perhaps updating the OP Disrespectful Nod page with the Calgary actions will be needed as well.

If those two are related, I would go with updating OP Disrespectful Nod. If someone can answer me on that one, I can add him to the entry editors.

i would think that #GGinDC would be something worth mentioning.

Please elaborate first.

As my own suggestion: Is the GamerGate website boycots and the gitgud blocklist anything notable?

I would also suggest to start looking in Aftermath headers. What did GamerGate change or where did they fail. For simplicity I would take February as the end point, as that gives you half a year which is easier to find stuff for, and around then was when the biggest events and hashtags came to a close.

@SuperJumpMan

What are you planning to add now after reading this post?

You’re implying we have to reply for discussion to flow, which is not the case. Talk a bit back and forth, bring forward arguments what you think should be added or not, and how the header should be written alongside its references. Some of you are doing that, and that’s good, but from what I see discussion on an addition then quickly seems to die.

The problem here is that every time we try to edit the article, a mod reverts it and says it's not good enough, when we try to discus it with you mods, you don't respond. We have no clue what you want, so you need to respond or we're going to conclude things.

Currently GamerGate has gotten less notable to outsiders. You won’t know what’s going on in GamerGate unless you actively follow it. Many news sites stopped caring and don’t document GamerGate anymore, whereas in the past GamerGate related events often were met with articles. It’s difficult to call anything GamerGate does nowadays notable from an outsider perspective.

Not really, the D.C. bomb treat lit up the blogshere even in places like Yahoo News, Reason, and Inquisitr, not normally interested in gaming news.

We're meeting with the Society of Professional Journalists.

Hell, the Guardian published an article concluding with the statement that they fear we'll be in control of Mars.

I would also suggest to start looking in Aftermath headers. What did GamerGate change or where did they fail. For simplicity I would take February as the end point, as that gives you half a year which is easier to find stuff for, and around then was when the biggest events and hashtags came to a close.

GamerGate is still here, and still growing.

If you want a short article, we should probably stick earlier parts into sub-articles (GamerGate to New Year's Eve 2014, GamerGate from New Year's Day 2015 to GDC 2015, etc…) and put a summery on the main article.

P.S. Can I get the ability to tag images? I see so many images without tags/with ambiguous tags, and I'd like to help fix that.

Please see here for info on the requirement for image tagging powers

Please see here for info on the requirement for image tagging powers

That page just lists how many times I have to do something to get a title, not how I can put tags on images that don't have them.

Whoops, wrong link.

Please see here

Anyhow, you need to upload 100 images to become a scrapbooker. When you become a scrapbooker, you are able to edit images (and add tags)

Thank you.

@randomman

Thank you for clarifying, i am sorry (again) for acting like that and hope it will be the last time to spill my spaghetti like this.
I only wanted the answer on the question i asked 12 days ago. But only when i overreacted, someone finally took the effort to answer.
anyway, enough internet drama. Now that stuff's been cleared up. we can finally go back to topic.

>the calgary expo: The honey badger brigade had a #gamergate stand at the expo. They asked some questions on some feminist panel
And guess what, they got kicked out.
The organisators say it was because they harassed panels the tweets are here and here
They also retweet a the mary sue article about gamergate infiltrating the expo
Calgary also launched a petition about video game controversies shortly after. Only to get pulled out because the "overwhelming response" (still looking if i can find it)
Later, the HBB did a meetup nearby the expo to not dissapoint the fans who traveled all the way up there only to get disrupted by the cops
The HBB are going to take legal action
I don't know how that will turn out yet.

>#GGinDC was a gamergate meetup in Washington DC wich got disrupted by a bomb threat

I'll give more info later if you want.

What about deepfreeze? Are you gonna add that to the article?

The HBB are going to take legal action
I don’t know how that will turn out yet.

I'd say wait for the outcome and then make a header. Unless the outcome of that will take like half a year in which case make a header now.

>#GGinDC was a gamergate meetup in Washington DC wich got disrupted by a bomb threat

Are their often GG meetups? And if so, do they all have things going down the shitter? If so on either, perhaps consider a meetups header because that's a fair topic.

What about deepfreeze? Are you gonna add that to the article?

Once again, please elaborate.

deepfreeze is a database that consolidated the information GG has uncovered and put it into an easy-to-digest format, the objective is to help consumers determine how reliable certain sites are. The site has ceased quite a bit of a stir in both camps (notable the GG wiki was shut down in responce to it) and if nothing else, was the most recent development in GG.

I'll start with making a header for #expogate

As with the aftermath header
there is the money raised for the charities, the game jam, the effects of the boycotts including massive loss of views and ethical reforms
Some of these are already mentioned in the entry, but are spread all over the entry and sub-entries.

>#Expogate

I thought this was about the Galgary Expo. Also reading through the header quickly, I'm gonna have to rewrite your addition.

Currently I don't have time, so I'm forced to temporarily remove it (you can still find the complete header back in the edit history, so no worries about possible lost work). I'll do that tomorrow or the day after, so don't worry about having to wait weeks again, but you're free to retry in the meantime.

Please remain a bit broader on topics like that. Calling the header "#expogate" most likely forces you to, once more, focus on pro-GG (which is exactly what we wish to avoid to remain neutral). And reading the header quickly tells you that this is the case as it focusses solely on the viewpoint from the HBB.

>"HBB set up a booth"
>"HBB confirms that"
>"According to HBB"
>"HBB organized"
>"HBB announced"

Is this a header for the Calgary Expo or for the HBB? Also the header is titled "#Expogate", which implies some hashtag that was created as a result from the events. Except then you read the header and you actually never find any mention of this hashtag. So this is probably a wrong choice for a header title.

But for example take this line you wrote:

>"According to the HBB, the security stated that the cause for their expulsion was due "at least 20″ allegations of harassment by attendees and possibly panel members by members of the HBB."

You put "at least 20" between quotation marks, so I gotta assume you have some source on that statement, yet I'm seeing none. But I also want that source to be (if possible) from the security or the Calgary Expo organisation, not the HBB. The security who work for the Expo said it, making HBB an indirect party. Typing that line from the viewpoint of the HBB gives a tone that the HBB were framed, and that's a very biased additon in favor of both the HBB and GG.

Describe what happened from an actual neutral viewpoint, not a third-person HBB viewpoint. If the stuff that happened was actually big, I'm sure you can find some info.

The problem here is that every time we try to edit the article, a mod reverts it and says it’s not good enough.

I hope this reply then suffices for reverting it.

We have no clue what you want, so you need to respond or we’re going to conclude things.

I have seen none of these conclusions in this thread outside of the threat on the previous page which can't really be called a conclusion. I'm sorry, but you can't expect us to actively follow the comment section or your IRC channel to scan for conclusions.

The problem here is that every time we try to edit the article, a mod reverts it and says it’s not good enough, when we try to discus it with you mods, you don’t respond. We have no clue what you want, so you need to respond or we’re going to conclude things.

When did mods revert anything for not being "good enough"? Where is your proof?

Also, did you actually try reaching a mod? I know I've never gotten a PM. I know no other mod has ever discussed PMs in regards to this. You can't fail to try reaching the other side and then claim the other side isn't listening.

That's like trying to run a movement behind computers instead of actually going out and changing the worl- Oh wait…

Just gonna make some additions to your post.

>"When did mods revert anything for not being “good enough”? Where is your proof?"

I've reverted or rewrote a couple of headers on that entry, but until now my reason was never "not good enough". The only reason I'm running with "not good enough" now is because the edit is still fresh so I can assume that the editor is able to fix it within a short timeframe.

All my other reversions, removals, or rewrites were based on either being unrelated to GG, being mergable with already existing headers, or just generally containing unnecessary information.

I've only been reached and requested for a reply on 2 occassions, one which was in this thread which you can find on the first page (the other was in the IRC and I don't have logs).

>"Also, did you actually try reaching a mod?"

I do have to cut them some slack here as this thread was created to make communication between mods and GG regarding the entry easier. We were a bit lacking on replies, but like I said before we had too little info to give a proper reply to too.

I know this thread was made to start discussion. I'm the one who convinced mods to allow it.

Regardless, you can't expect mods to check up on a thread that hasn't had activity in who-knows-how-long. If they started up the discussion again, they should have reached out to some mods instead of assuming we'd scramble to it like bees to honey.

As a suggestion for whoever decides to add the header back (either RamdomMan or SuperJumpMan), go with "the Honey Badgers and the Calgary Expo"

Here's the thing.

When you make a thread for discussing additions to the article with the mods (note: AFAIK this is already unprecedented in the history of KYM), people are going to assume the mods are going to discuss additions to the article.

And when the mods don't bother answering, and this has already been censored across the internet, and we're seen how angry you are that Don hasn't deleted it (and it doesn't how many of you are "just joking"), the conclusion is going to be that they don't like this article existing.

Honestly, if you can't be bothered to subscribe to a thread you proposed to "start discussion", well the conclusion we're going to make is that you're not interested in discussion.

Add in the repeated sabotaging of any attempt to update the article, the obvious conclusion is that the mods are trying to kill the article via neglect.

P.S. RandomMan, you say "describe what happened from an actual neutral viewpoint", why do you think you are qualified to judge neutrality? You have stated "We mods don’t follow GamerGate, so when someone then brings forward and idea to add lets say CalgaryExpo as a recent example, we mods can’t say what happened let alone if it’s notable at all".

As far as I can tell, you want the article to be "neutral", but you don't know what happened, and trying to get any mod to respond to this is absolutely fruitless unless we start issuing ultimatums.

superjumpman got Don's approval to go ahead, and you still reverted his edits.

This is pretty much a rerun of early December and "off-topic!" "how is it off-topic?" "by being off-topic" shitstorm.

If you don't want to deal with this, hand over responsibilities to someone who has a grasp of what's going on (my vote is Ms. Fortune), or spend time to learn what's going on. You could take a third option and just continue going as we have been, but that's not going to work well.

Im gonna lay it down for you like this aight. KnowYourMeme is not a news site, we never have been, and we never will be. We are not meant to discuss every little detail about what we are covering, just the general info and how its spread over the web, GG is no exception. Our job is to discuss something only if it has a large internet spread.

The reason the GG article isn't being updated is because most of the shit happening with GamerGate is only happening in the movement in of itself. Unless the next thing to happen in GamerGate spreads beyond the movement and into the rest of the web, then we don't give a shit. Simple as that.

If you're that determined to document more info on GG then go to a site meant for that, like a wiki or some shit. KYM is not the place.

Relax man, there can be multiple reasons for the removal.
I know it's frustrating to see the only update in a month getting removed but talking like this doesn't solve anything, have a little faith in them.
I trust them, they are the mods after all. Yes they are sometimes annonying and we like to make fun of them but never forget what work they do for this site day after day. If we can't trust our mods, how can we trust this site? If they would hate us so much, they could have taken care of us long ago, i would be banned from this website for the first comment i made, they could have made an article as biased as wikipedia has.
Although i want to know the reason for the header's removal as well.
(if it will be a permanent removal, that is)

That's not true though.

And if you keep saying some thing false in order to justify this, people will get frustrated.

Relax man, there can be multiple reasons for the removal.

Could be SJW beliefs, could be bullying because they have no other power in their life, could be too much time in le Riff-Raff hugbox means he doesn't get how badly he's fucking up.

Could be a lot of things that were the motivation for happened and it's ambiguous which one/ones it is, what's unambiguous is what happened.

I know it’s frustrating to see the only update in a month getting removed but talking like this doesn’t solve anything, have a little faith in them.

How many months did we have faith in them and use this thread, and nothing happened? How long did it take between getting fed-up, and getting loud, and them coming to the table?

I trust them, they are the mods after all.

I haven't since January, when it became clear that they didn't learn much since December. Oh, there's been ups and downs, but for the past two months at minimum there's only only been one mod I'd actually be surprised if they stuck a knife in my back. I'd still have a plan, of course, but I'd genuinely be surprised.

If we can’t trust our mods, how can we trust this site? If they would hate us so much, they could have taken care of us long ago, i would be banned from this website for the first comment i made, they could have made an article as biased as wikipedia has.

Remember the Escapist? Remember how much the mods & a bunch of contributors were blatantly Anti? Remember how Alexander Macris said "Declare war on my customers? Hell no!"? Remember how he solved the issue?

The only reason we're here is because Don is one of the rare Internet entrepreneurs who knows what he's doing.

He's repeatedly refused to delete the article, because he gets that driving his customers away will not end well.

I have no doubt that the article would be turned into a copy of Wikipedia's if the average mod here had their way.

@A Real Libertarian

I'm honestly surprised at how much of an idiot you are. It's like the stupidity has formed its own retarding aura around you.

But fine. Let me tell you, step by step, why your thoughts are trash.

When you make a thread for discussing additions to the article with the mods (note: AFAIK this is already unprecedented in the history of KYM), people are going to assume the mods are going to discuss additions to the article.

We're not like GG. We don't spend endless amounts of hours on the computer, avoiding sunlight and human interaction. Many of us have lives and are away from KYM for days.

And when the mods don’t bother answering, and this has already been censored across the internet, and we’re seen how angry you are that Don hasn’t deleted it (and it doesn’t how many of you are “just joking”), the conclusion is going to be that they don’t like this article existing.

Where has it been shown that mods hate GG? Sure, a few mods have voiced their displeasure, but isn't GG against guilt by association? If you're going to stand for something, don't go around committing the same crimes, numbnuts.

Honestly, if you can’t be bothered to subscribe to a thread you proposed to “start discussion”, well the conclusion we’re going to make is that you’re not interested in discussion.

See, this is how I know you're not even in college. It's finals week, moron. I have more important things to do than entertain some conspiracy theorists who are afraid of their own shadow.

P.S. RandomMan, you say “describe what happened from an actual neutral viewpoint”, why do you think you are qualified to judge neutrality? You have stated “We mods don’t follow GamerGate, so when someone then brings forward and idea to add lets say CalgaryExpo as a recent example, we mods can’t say what happened let alone if it’s notable at all”.

As far as I can tell, you want the article to be “neutral”, but you don’t know what happened, and trying to get any mod to respond to this is absolutely fruitless unless we start issuing ultimatums.

Interesting. Your push for neutrality in journalism is based on the premise that journalists should have no personal stake in the nature of what they are covering. However, when it comes to documenting your movement, that's suddenly not good enough? So, you're basically saying that GG is one giant hypocritical movement? Nice one, asshole. I'll be sure to add that into the entry, with complete and utter neutrality

superjumpman got Don’s approval to go ahead, and you still reverted his edits.

Yes, your collective dicksucking is noted. Allow me to give you some insight. The admins rarely give a shit what goes on the site. They put up an entry and leave. It can rot or it can change in any way, they don't care. It's up to moderators to regulate the information coming in.

Now, once again. DID ANY OF YOU TRY CONTACTING A MOD? You managed to gloss over this question, instead choosing to put blame on mods for having lives.

Very petty, very childish, very unbecoming. But hey, if you want to be the spokesperson of GG, who am I to stop you? Just realize you're currently the public image on this thread. You're also assumed to be some conspiracy nut who's never went to college and cries all day because he doesn't try and still expects to be rewarded.

Basically, you're being a neckbeard and influencing GG's image as such. Congrats, really.

Could be SJW beliefs, could be bullying because they have no other power in their life, could be too much time in le Riff-Raff hugbox means he doesn’t get how badly he’s fucking up.

Could be a lot of things that were the motivation for happened and it’s ambiguous which one/ones it is, what’s unambiguous is what happened.

Now, see. This reeks of childish behavior. You know nothing, accept that you know nothing, and yet you're still willing to make as many assumptions as you need to in order to justify your actions. You wish to act and believe without knowing and justify it through any twists and turns your mind takes. And you people want us to believe your side is the morally strong one?

Get that weak shit off my court.

How many months did we have faith in them and use this thread, and nothing happened? How long did it take between getting fed-up, and getting loud, and them coming to the table?

And how many of those weeks did any of contact anyone who actually gave a crap about the entries? As noted before, admins don't.

It still sounds to me like you're crying because people didn't try when you didn't even make the effort to let them try. If anything, this is only reinforcing the belief. So, congrats, you spoiled child.

I haven’t since January, when it became clear that they didn’t learn much since December. Oh, there’s been ups and downs, but for the past two months at minimum there’s only only been one mod I’d actually be surprised if they stuck a knife in my back. I’d still have a plan, of course, but I’d genuinely be surprised.

As the person who pushed for this thread, let me tell you something. You are so full of shit, not even farmers want to get close to you.

You act like everyone is out to get you. You judge on that assumption, you form beliefs on that assumption, you act on that assumption. And you expect us to cater to you, based on that assumption.

Any way you look at it, you're kind of insane.

Remember the Escapist? Remember how much the mods & a bunch of contributors were blatantly Anti? Remember how Alexander Macris said “Declare war on my customers? Hell no!”? Remember how he solved the issue?

False analogy. We are not the Escapist. Besides, those guys were ultimately on your side, even if the mods weren't. Take the conspiracy nut out of your ass and try thinking for a change.

The only reason we’re here is because Don is one of the rare Internet entrepreneurs who knows what he’s doing.

He’s repeatedly refused to delete the article, because he gets that driving his customers away will not end well.

We've already discussed Don. He's not in it for the money, he just doesn't give enough of a shit.

Try and keep up, champ.

I have no doubt that the article would be turned into a copy of Wikipedia’s if the average mod here had their way.

Your conspiracy nut is showing again.

Allow me to give you a rundown of the mods you've seen. They don't care about GG, they mess with you guys because you guys make it too easy.

One little thing you guys don't agree with? OMG CONSPIRACY! LET ME SCREAM AND CRY AND PRETEND I'M A BADASS! GET THE MODS BANNED! GET OUR FRIENDS AS MODS! HAHAHA! NOTHING PERSONNEL, KID!

As you can see, from those mods' point of view, you're all retarded.

And honestly, seeing your responses, I'm inclined to agree, retard.

Good God. Calm down people. In the end, we all waste our times in a God damn meme site.

I know Im not much of a contributor to this site, and I haven’t contributed to any article (let alone this one), but I want to make a suggestion. Feel free to completely ignore this, but I kind of feel compelled to say this.

It doesn’t take a genius to realize this article is one step away from turning into an edit war, so I figured I could suggest what each side of this could do to stop that from happening. First off, Im going to call the group calling for change team Jumpman, and the group opposing the update team Randomman. These names are somewhat arbitrary, so don’t get too hung up over them.

Team Jumpman should take a couple of days to figure out what they think should be added, the reasons why it should be added, and some evidence to corroborate it being worthy of being added to the article. Then, Team Randomman should say whether or not you think what team Jumpman wants to be added should be added. If you think what they want to add is reasonable, then let them add it. If you don’t think what team Jumpman want to add is reasonable, then state the reason why you don’t think it should be added and state what would change your mind. Make sure you actually have a reasonable reason (not just you don’t want to add it because you don’t want to add it) and make sure any goal you set for team Jumpman is achievable. Then, if team Jumpman can provide this evidence, then let them add it. However, if team Jumpman can’t, then they’ll just have to accept the fact they haven’t met the proper standards to have what they want added.

Id also suggest staying away from the insults. I know a lot of you dislike each other, but the insults are just dragging the quality of discourse down even further than it was before.

Thats all from me, feel free to accept or reject these suggestions.

You know what…i quit.
I only wanted to help with the entry keeping up to date but it's just too hard.
I really try my best to write neutral, i really try. The main problem is: i am not neutral myself, i chose my side.
I really tried my best about searching for those sources, i spent hours to look through all articles and wiki's to find the right sources, it was the best i could find. Everything is just too vague.
I am tired from all of this, where the hell are the other editors, it is just too much for an inexperienced user like me. I really accept the advice Randomman, i really do. But maybe it's just better that i stop because the only thing i seem to do here is making a big mess.
If you are in need of sources or something however, i will gladly search for them. The rest is up to someone else.
And i advice you, mr libertarian, to take a break for a few days. Behaviour like this causes more
harm then good. Stuff is already complicated enough.

TL,DR: I quit trying to edit here as stuff is way too hard here for a noob like me. calm your tits libertarian and take a break.

PS: Seems i hadn't read the thread good enough when i made my previous post. So nevermind about the reason of the header getting removed

And when the mods don’t bother answering, and this has already been censored across the internet, and we’re seen how angry you are that Don hasn’t deleted it (and it doesn’t how many of you are “just joking”), the conclusion is going to be that they don’t like this article existing.

Why would we be angry that Don hasn't deleted the GG article yet? Entries are the one thing on the site we make certain to take serious because we are still an internet phenomena documentation site. GG was a big thing on the web, so not documenting it would be extremely retarded and only go against what we exist for.

Add in the repeated sabotaging of any attempt to update the article, the obvious conclusion is that the mods are trying to kill the article via neglect.

>Sabotage
Hahahahahahaha. Stop seeing demons. I care that the article looks good, well written, and has oversight. So I wish to avoid it being a clusterfuck or contain unnecessary info KYM doesn't care about.

>Neglect
Ah yes, because writing a seperate entry for Operation Disrespectful Nod much larger than the header in the GG entry ever was is most certainly neglect.

RandomMan, you say “describe what happened from an actual neutral viewpoint”, why do you think you are qualified to judge neutrality?

Why are you? You're not making a strong point here because the difference between you and myself here is that I actually have a lot of experience with KYM entries and the controversies we've covered over the years.

superjumpman got Don’s approval to go ahead, and you still reverted his edits.

And he got ours as well. Don doesn't know the details, he only sees someone being an editor and not knowing what you're making such a big issue about. Because really, why are you? You never had to ask for Don's permission, and neither had I. Both our edits are legit for as far as Don could care.

The only reason we’re here is because Don is one of the rare Internet entrepreneurs who knows what he’s doing.
He’s repeatedly refused to delete the article, because he gets that driving his customers away will not end well.

Hahahahaha. Holy shit son, it's hilarious how much of a conspiracy nut you are. Not a single mod on this site wishes to delete an article for something as big as GamerGate. Doing that would be extremely retarded. Not for the views, but because it goes exactly against the reason KYM exists: Documenting internet phenomena.

Don has not repeatedly refused to delete the article because not a single mod has EVER requested that from him. If anyone was ever stupid enough to request that then it was a user, and if that user would've approached a mod he would've gotten the same reply.

I have no doubt that the article would be turned into a copy of Wikipedia’s if the average mod here had their way.

LOL! Here's a thing: With all my edits on that entry the staff has barely cared about what I added or removed. There was I think one discussion between mods and staff and there I basically got a green light to go ahead with what I wanted to change. All my edits were your biggest fear: Me, a mod, having my way with the entry. Amazing that it's still standing huh? Damn I must suck a lot at destroying an entire entry.

Son I think you actually might have mental issues with how much you fear everything. It's like you think the entire world hates you and everything is a big conspiracy out to end you. And your conspiracies don't even make sense, the arguments are mostly made up and run on a worst case scenario that would never become reality. It's like your mind twists itself in such a way that you believe your own garbage.

Superjumpman wrote:

I know it’s frustrating to see the only update in a month getting removed but talking like this doesn’t solve anything, have a little faith in them.

Thanks for your patience. Like I stated before, I am going to readd your header. Please don't worry. I understand your frustration, so I'll try to do that soon.

I really accept the advice Randomman, i really do. But maybe it’s just better that i stop because the only thing i seem to do here is making a big mess

You took initiative, and that's more than any conspiracy nut has ever done. It was thanks to you that we now actually have an entry for #NotYourShield and that we're (soon) having a new header for the main entry. What other GGer on this site managed to pull this off?

Don't be cruel on yourself. Sure, your edits might not be perfect, but so weren't mine when I first starting writing. It's a learning process, and you'll get better in time.

Honestly, if I were you, I'd take at least a week's vacation from GG, and maybe KYM altogether. Getting this worked up about something isn't good for your blood pressure.

So, since I got no clue how to reply here, im just going to answer Bob this way. First, "where has it ever been shown that Mods are Anti-GG?". In the same post you ask that question. Multiple times. In fact, the first time is before you even asked the question. In other words, you answered your own question before you finished asking it. Unless "moderator" has a more precise meaning, in which case you could have specified so. But judging from the rest of your rant, it seems that that is not the case, so that seems to stand, until corrected.

Next. "did you bother trying to contact a mod?". You know, when you get the admins approval, it doesnt really matter what the mods say. Thats because in the hierarchy, Admins are above mods. Now, you say that here it seems to work differently. Which we should know how exactly? Besides, the answer is yes. Thats what this thread is for, isnt it? Well, there have been several requests and questions, none of them answered in about a month. Or more.

Until there finally was an answer that basically said "you have to show more than that before you can update". Which would have been nice to know before that answer, because it seems people were under the assumption that providing a basic summary and some sources is enough. Which it isnt, but how should anyone know without anyone saying that?

Now, the rest is just a bunch of jumbled ad hominems and other attacks, and appears to just serve to show just how anti you are, while claiming the mods arent anti. Thats a bit strange to do, in all honesty. Self-contradictory even. So, yeah, thats all there is to say, I think.

You're under the assumption that I'm worked up.

Newsflash: It's quite easy to call people out on being idiots without being angry.

@UNOvven

Now, that is precious. You think that anyone who insults you must be against you. You must be a real riot in the real world, right?

I suppose your entire life is spent inside a hugbox where no one can dare to insult you.

You're conclusions are illogical and ill-founded. Try forming a coherent thought next time you try to take part in a thread.

Edit: Also, you did nothing to prove my point.

All you did was say

"PEOPLE ARE AGAINST US!!" and when asked for proof, you responded with "SEE?! LOOK HOW ANTI YOU ARE!"

The scariest thing about this is that at some point, this sounded like intelligent thought to you.

Lol at these niggas talkin about getting Don's approval. Don understands how the site works too. You can update it, so long as it has significant internet spread. If not either don't bother adding it, or it'll be undone

Hm, not neccessarily. But if you insult the entire group, and claim that they are nothing but "conspiracy nuts", go out of your way to say that they are just crazy, then yes, i would go out on a limb and say that you are pretty much against. But if you prefer concrete quotes, im more than happy to oblige. Lets collect.

First, "We’re not like GG. We don’t spend endless amounts of hours on the computer, avoiding sunlight and human interaction. Many of us have lives and are away from KYM for days.". line 5-6. Yeah, thats already pretty conclusive. But wait, there is more.

"One little thing you guys don’t agree with? OMG CONSPIRACY! LET ME SCREAM AND CRY AND PRETEND I’M A BADASS! GET THE MODS BANNED! GET OUR FRIENDS AS MODS! HAHAHA! NOTHING PERSONNEL, KID!" and "As you can see, from those mods’ point of view, you’re all retarded.". Of course, these are not as strong, but honestly, the first one was conclusive enough.

The rest were insults against a single person, and those are irrelevant, as insulting a person who is in a movement doesnt neccessarily mean you are against the movement. After all they could be, how do you say, kind of a dick.

So yeah, based on your own rant, you are Anti. Quite strongly, too. And you didnt even bother to hide it. Which makes your new response unusual. Whether its backtracking, or something else, I cant tell, not that it matters.

And no, my conclusions are logical, and founded on your own rant. So, if my conclusions are "ill-founded", does that mean your own rant is? Because otherwise the statement makes no sense.

Edit to your edit: Yes, I said that you should just see it. Because I thought that you would notice what you wrote yourself. After all, I assume that you are self-aware. But since you didnt seem to be aware of what you wrote, i quoted you here. So, yeah, thats what you wrote, so isnt that enough? Besides, last part of your rant, you state yourself that they think "[GG] (sic) are all retarded", so you even state it yourself. Or do you want to go back on your statement?

Even if there was such a faction (which I am not aware of, I dont actually follow Gamergate, but I do know), how exactly is that relevant? They would, at best, be a faction, not the entirety. And you claim they "have no lives", which again, does not follow from that. Unless you would argue that anybody who invests hours into whatever they do in their free time has no lifes. Whether it be a musician, an artist, or even a programmer.

So, unless you want to say you have a one-track-mind where: if a person uses their free time to do something that isnt what I do, they have no lifes, then yes, it doesnt follow, which implies you think that way by default, and just try to justify it using a line of logic that isnt logical.

Also, if they simply "messed with them" (not us, im not involved in Gamergate in any way), because they are "retarded", that still means they are anti. So your explanation doesnt change the meaning.

Now, this line of logic doesnt make sense either. "If I was against it, why would I do something that could help it?". Well, there are multiple, different explanations for that. 1, to use as a shield against accusations. You just did that. 2, because you have no choice. No idea if thats the case here, Im not aware of precise rules. 3, to have a supposed medium of discussion that serves no purpose, but if someone wants to have something done, you can just redirect them to it. I dont know what its called, at least in english, but its a relatively common method. 4, because you alone dont have enough power to do any of that. 5, to seem neutral when you are not (this intersects with 1. however). Thats enough for now I think.

Now, here, 1, 4 and 5 seem to be definitily true. 2 and 3 I cant say with certainty. But 3 is enough. 1 would be enough even. Oh and not to mention, this thread is, what, 5 months old? You could have changed your opinion. And again, since 4 seems to apply, that means you cant retroactively change it.

Also, by using ad hominem every other sentence, you dont exactly help your case. You just make your arguments seem weaker than they already are (and they are pretty weak).

puts speaker on

can everyone who has nothing relevant to say get out of here, take your bickering somewhere else please. thank you

@randomman

You're right, i should not give up so fast. I'll try again as many times as needed.
I'll look for info for the aftermath header as soon as possible.

Hello, I go but the handle "Captain Blubber" but feel free to call me by my Christian name "Matthew". There has been a lot of commotion about the GamerGate entry and it's lack of updates.

As Senior Head Moderator of Know Your Meme, a couple of the lower mods have come to me to post about what I think about this issue and discuss how we can solve this in a way that will be in agreement with everyone's views (what a tall order!). Things are pretty heated in this thread, let me put on my flame-proof goggles (I hope they do more than nothing lol!) and let me break this down in a straight-forward non-confrontational way.

During my long, storied career at Know Your Meme I have oversaw the creation of every entry on this site (bar a couple at the very beginning before entry creation was open to the public). I can speak with full authority on why GamerGate has been in the words of the people "neglected".

It's very simple. The web has a notoriously short attention span, it's not like the good old days where memes would stick around for a couple years before dying off, memes are born and die within weeks and sometimes even days. With a steady stream of new content to be organized and categorized we cannot waste our efforts on one "movement" everyone else has for the most part forgotten. I know that "things have developed" from the point of view of the GG community, but for them and them alone. No one else is keeping tabs and it's not worth our time. These

This isn't unique to GamerGate's case, so please don't think it's about how we feel about it. Remember "Anonymous"? They were a very big movement (much bigger than GamerGate, please do not kid yourself) who made the news and still operate to this day doing their operations and so on and so forth, despite all this the entry has not been updated in over a year. Instead, Anonymous will receive little blurbs in other entries when they pop up and say their piece. Due to the narrow scope of Gamergate (video game journalism I believe) it's unlikely any more internet stirring events will come out of it. If they do, for example the Law & Order episode, we will have no problem updating it.

Since we're a user-driven website, it's understandable that you guys should want us to let some of you edit the entry and keep it updated. If we had the modbase and resources of say a Wikipedia, this wouldn't be an issue. We'd have special users called "GamerGate Babysitters" (ha ha, just a harmless joke. Please don't dox me!) who could make sure that you guys aren't getting carried away. This is of course not within our abilities. Being a moderator is not difficult, but focusing one entry day in and day out instead of new interesting entries (or bad joke entries. "Super Robo Jesus" anyone?) is pretty taxing. Due to our small modbase (due to inactivity of most older mods) we have to stay on top of things as best we can and even a cursory glance at the submissions page reveals what we're up against.

So if we could keep this thread for discussion of GamerGate events that could make it into the entry and not berating our mods for not focusing on your community then we should be fine. It should come as no supriose that most moderators have nothing but contempt for GamerGators (I think you guys are retards!) but we do give enough of a shit about our responsibilities (we do it for free don't forget) to not want to neglect a notable internet community/event. I like arguing online as much as anybody else (shout-out to Bob, for holdin' it daaaaaawn) but like most things about GamerGate this fighting is futile and not going to get you anywhere. So please continue posting things you think should be added and know that if we don't respond, then there are more pressing meme matters to attend to. Which, considering how unimportant meme matters tend to be, says a lot about GamerGate.

Anyway keep fighting Jewish women and transsexuals! We'll see you when you win!

@UNOvven

Superjumpman is right. I shouldn't be proving you wrong here. Let's continue on your wall.

Edit:

Also, thank you for explaining on behalf of the mods, Blubs.

HolyCrapItsBob wrote

I’m honestly surprised at how much of an idiot you are. It’s like the stupidity has formed its own retarding aura around you.

But fine. Let me tell you, step by step, why your thoughts are trash.

Good luck.

We’re not like GG. We don’t spend endless amounts of hours on the computer, avoiding sunlight and human interaction. Many of us have lives and are away from KYM for days.

Are you telling me you and every other mod here couldn't take the time respond to us for months because "many of us have lives"?

Where has it been shown that mods hate GG? Sure, a few mods have voiced their displeasure, but isn’t GG against guilt by association? If you’re going to stand for something, don’t go around committing the same crimes, numbnuts.

[Looks down at a different part of your comment] "[The mods you’ve seen] don’t care about GG, they mess with you guys because you guys make it too easy". You're not being very consistent here.

See, this is how I know you’re not even in college. It’s finals week, moron. I have more important things to do than entertain some conspiracy theorists who are afraid of their own shadow.

Has it been finals week since February? Because that's how long it's been since a mod responded here before superjumpman gave his ultimatum.

Interesting. Your push for neutrality in journalism is based on the premise that journalists should have no personal stake in the nature of what they are covering. However, when it comes to documenting your movement, that’s suddenly not good enough? So, you’re basically saying that GG is one giant hypocritical movement? Nice one, asshole. I’ll be sure to add that into the entry, with complete and utter neutrality

"Having no personal stake in what you're reporting on" =/= "No knowing anything about what you're reporting".

Honestly, if a journalist was reporting on ISIS and said that Kim Jong-un was the King of Syria, that would be bad.

Yes, your collective dicksucking is noted. Allow me to give you some insight. The admins rarely give a shit what goes on the site. They put up an entry and leave. It can rot or it can change in any way, they don’t care. It’s up to moderators to regulate the information coming in.

Now, once again. DID ANY OF YOU TRY CONTACTING A MOD? You managed to gloss over this question, instead choosing to put blame on mods for having lives.

Very petty, very childish, very unbecoming. But hey, if you want to be the spokesperson of GG, who am I to stop you? Just realize you’re currently the public image on this thread. You’re also assumed to be some conspiracy nut who’s never went to college and cries all day because he doesn’t try and still expects to be rewarded.

Basically, you’re being a neckbeard and influencing GG’s image as such. Congrats, really.

So you think you have utter impunity with the admins? Honestly, you don't get why the average person user of this site respects Don, do you?

Yes, we did contact mods, repeatedly, for months. Now why didn't you respond until superjumpman made his ultimatum? Did you and the other mods forget to subscribe? I can buy that, but you have to admit you fucked-up there. So throw out this "did you contact the mods" shit, that's what this thread was billed as, you can't pretend we didn't.

"[P]etty", "childish", "very unbecoming", but effective none the less.

P.S. How do you think repeatedly crying about how I never went to collage, and am a conspiracy theorist, and am a poo-poo baby is convincing anyone who doesn't already agree with you?

Honestly, if you didn't want to deal with this during finals week, you should have dealt with it months ago. Now your choices here are:

1. Deal with this and finals week.
2. Let a different mod handle it.
3. Say "OK, I fucked-up by letting this go so long without a response, but I'm at university, I'll be done on [date], we can deal with it then" (I think this is best).
4. Just continue escalating.

Now, see. This reeks of childish behavior. You know nothing, accept that you know nothing, and yet you’re still willing to make as many assumptions as you need to in order to justify your actions. You wish to act and believe without knowing and justify it through any twists and turns your mind takes. And you people want us to believe your side is the morally strong one?

Get that weak shit off my court.

Again with the "I'm so mature" schtick, are you trying to convince other people or yourself?

I'd don't know the motivations for your actions, I can't reach inside your head and see what's in there, but I can see your actions, and I can go off that.

And how many of those weeks did any of contact anyone who actually gave a crap about the entries? As noted before, admins don’t.

It still sounds to me like you’re crying because people didn’t try when you didn’t even make the effort to let them try. If anything, this is only reinforcing the belief. So, congrats, you spoiled child.

Here.

Look at all that contacting, but no mod showed up.

You don't get that simply denying it took place makes you look like a child covering their eyes and saying "If I didn't see it, it didn't happen".

As the person who pushed for this thread, let me tell you something. You are so full of shit, not even farmers want to get close to you.

You act like everyone is out to get you. You judge on that assumption, you form beliefs on that assumption, you act on that assumption. And you expect us to cater to you, based on that assumption.

Any way you look at it, you’re kind of insane.

If you pushed for this thread, why did you not respond? Why do insist on claiming we never contacted you? Did you forget? Because if you did, that sucks, but we can move on and start fixing it, but if deliberately never responded, we've going to have a problem.

Because we've followed the rules to the letter, but you still think shitting on us is perfectly justified.

False analogy. We are not the Escapist. Besides, those guys were ultimately on your side, even if the mods weren’t. Take the conspiracy nut out of your ass and try thinking for a change.

If you're going to claim an analogy is false based on the fact the objects involved are not the same object then you're never going to get anything besides a false analogy.

We’ve already discussed Don. He’s not in it for the money, he just doesn’t give enough of a shit.

Try and keep up, champ.

He's not going to down money unless there's some reason not to.

And if turning down the money means deleting a bunch of entries and banning most of the people, he's not going to do it unless someone is literally holding a gun to his head (or similar levels of coercion).

I've said more on this here.

Your conspiracy nut is showing again.

Allow me to give you a rundown of the mods you’ve seen. They don’t care about GG, they mess with you guys because you guys make it too easy.

One little thing you guys don’t agree with? OMG CONSPIRACY! LET ME SCREAM AND CRY AND PRETEND I’M A BADASS! GET THE MODS BANNED! GET OUR FRIENDS AS MODS! HAHAHA! NOTHING PERSONNEL, KID!

As you can see, from those mods’ point of view, you’re all retarded.

And honestly, seeing your responses, I’m inclined to agree, retard.

Are you actually looking at what you are saying?

You're calling me a "conspiracy nut" because I think you mess with us because you think we're retarded, while you say the mods mess with us because they think we're retarded.

Why don't you go to the nearest police station and confess to murder? The cops aren't conspiracy theorists, so they wouldn't arrest you right? As soon as you say "Grow up you non-collage educated conspiracy theorists!" they're going to let you go, right?

I'm going to quote myself here:

Not really, the D.C. bomb treat lit up the blogshere even in places like Yahoo News, Reason, and Inquisitr, not normally interested in gaming news.

We’re meeting with the Society of Professional Journalists.

Hell, the Guardian published an article concluding with the statement that they fear we’ll be in control of Mars.

The more you say GamerGate is unimportant without addressing the evidence it is important, the more likely we're going to conclude that you're not acting in good faith.

Especially when you admit Bob is representative of your views (Bob thinks GamerGate is retards, you think GamerGate is retards, most mods have nothing but contempt for us), regardless of how different your tone is.

I'm going to go ahead and say that we could stand to raise the level of discourse in this thread a bit. I was under the impression that people were here to get shit done, not imitate the Youtube comments section by way of flinging insults at each other.

i really don't think you read my post.

@Libertarian

You're throwing this thread off track even more. Continue and I will have to take moderator action. Stop being a horrendous moron and contact people privately. It's not that hard, a two year old could do it.

I did.

That's why I'm saying I disagree with your conclusion.

Honestly, I'm getting the feeling that you just have an irrational aversion to GamerGate, so any time you see something about you run away and don't pay attention.

That means your perspective has become distorted, and you think this is smaller then it is.

Could it be the other way around and it's my perspective that's distorted? Oh sure, maybe, but the only way to determine who is correct is to look at the evidence.

And a lot of us have concluded that this thread is a trap to make us waste our time posting here instead of finding an effective way to update the article.

That's not helped by Bob saying that no mod regularly checks this thread.

This thread was billed as a way for mods and users to put together some updates to the article, but when we're the only ones doing that, and a mod is claiming we need to contact the mods, but the designated thread for contacting the mods doesn't count…

We lose faith in you.

Multiple articles does not constitute large scale internet spread. Lots of things have articles on the web. Doesn't mean they've reached meme status though. Try again.

I responded to your last post on your wall. I'm going to ask that you stop posting in this thread. There won't be another warning.

As for this post. No mod regularly checks it, so go out and find a mod. Is that really so hard to do?

I never said the thread doesn't count. You're drawing incorrect conclusions.

Like, is it possible to be this stupid?

This is why mods have lost faith in you guys long ago. Commenters seem to believe the whole site must revolve around them. That if you make a comment or a post mods will eat that shit up.

Here's an eye opener for you: That's not the case. If you want a mod to pay attention to you, reach a mod, because we're just going to assume the usual comment circlejerking is going on.

We've already established that GamerGate qualifies for inclusion this site.

The question is whether it's still notable.

I'd argue a bunch of sources that don't normally talk about this sort of thing writing articles on one incident of it, a massively important industry body siting down for discussion, and a mainstream newspaper using us as an example of the people they fear will conquer Mars within 50 years all says that yes we are.

This is the first time I've seen a forum like this on KYM because I've just been a lurking for a long time, but… Is Bob's demeanor here normal? When I see a mod on any site I imagine someone a bit less prone to insults and such.

And regarding the discussion, apparently mods haven't checked this thread in months or otherwise have refused to allow updates, but regardless, the events surrounding #GamerGate are ongoing and do indeed appear important to the context of the event itself, particularly the CalExpo debacle and #GGinDC (which convinced me to stop lurking and officially declare myself as pro-GG.

But if the mods who look over these things don't find them notable or objective enough (whether that's what they actually think or if they're rabidly anti-GG is ultimately irrelevant to me, it just matters that the article is having difficulty being updated in the first place), and the article stalls and then the people invested in documenting the events for this site can't really make any progress, what exactly are we expected to do? What sort of compromise can be made?

Well, I'm a little more insulting than usual because Libertarian is just not getting the picture. It's kind of infuriating. Hahaha.

As for what you're supposed to do…

Inform mods, state your case, back it up with evidence and let discussion flow. That's really all.

Here's the header.

Feedback, complaints, or other stuff you think should be pointed out, please share here.

Looks good enough to me, do you have any issues?