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KYM Pony General VIII: One Pony Away From a Cease and Desist

Last posted May 19, 2022 at 09:55PM EDT. Added Jul 06, 2014 at 11:32AM EDT
3763 posts from 128 users

CrashGordon94 wrote:

@Lunar: I'm… Actually genuinely unsure of what to say to all that…

Doctor Kori said:

Sure, if you say so. Oh btw best pony. When you were when John lenin….ugh, I mean, Where you were when the Valve announced the victory of Fluttershy as the best pony within the TF2, using the in-game announcement system? I was on 2Fort, and I made the best intel cap ever thanks to that shitstorm.

I actually wasn't, since I don't play TF2 (have it on my computer but haven't gotten around to trying it yet) but I can imagine what that was like! Oh boy…

I actually have something important to say, right now the mods are talking about problematic galleries on KYM and the main MLP gallery is one of them, so if you haven't heard already, go pay them a visit and discuss what we need to in order to make sure it doesn't get locked.

I just gave the thread a read-through, and it doesn't really look like the MLP gallery is that big of a focus. That might change, but right now they seem to be talking mostly about the Smash Bros gallery.

Though, with the MLP gallery, it's true that the lack of tagging is a big problem, though it's also a site-wide problem and not limited to just the one gallery. (Speaking of which, I just posted a suggestion thread on that issue, if anyone is interested.)

As for the problem of people posting images in the general gallery instead of one of the sub-pages . . . eh, that probably won't work. You see, back when MLP was new on the site, the brony users (me, RandomMan, and a bunch of other people who, mostly, aren't on the site anymore) worked really hard to keep up with the fandom's prolific meme creation. But at one point we realized that these things were way too numerous and ephemeral and so decided to stop. If we kept up with it, things like twicane would have their own individual pages, but not anymore.

Anyway, that decision was made under the assumption that people would just use the main gallery, and that most memes beyond the run-of-the mill would be served well enough with just a mention on the main page (which is what happened with ask-blogs). Given that, I have a hard time getting mad a people for ignoring the side-pages, since that's more or less what we said we'd have them do back in the day.

Platus wrote:

If we kept up with it, things like twicane would have their own individual pages, but not anymore.

Uhm…


The world needs more awesome Scootaloo.

Last edited Aug 10, 2014 at 07:54PM EDT
@Lunar: I’m… Actually genuinely unsure of what to say to all that…

I lost track of what I've been trying to argue anyways…

At which point I should probably start from the top and say that I think that emotions thieves and seductresses are not evil enough for me to consider excluding from a group of protagonists.

Though for some reason I feel like I'm going to write one changeling as essentially wanting to feed on others but never gets the chance to since the only ponies around happen to be her friends… Or associated with them.

Fair enough?

Last edited Aug 11, 2014 at 12:35AM EDT

@Stunthead
Oh crap, you spotted me!

Eh…

To answer your question:
Why do I get on EqD so much?

What an odd fluke.
Most of Andy's other pictures are better framed and don't usually have people showing around the edges.
I'm special!


More kick-ass Scootaloo!

Last edited Aug 11, 2014 at 03:44AM EDT

Luna Protege wrote:

@Lunar: I’m… Actually genuinely unsure of what to say to all that…

I lost track of what I've been trying to argue anyways…

At which point I should probably start from the top and say that I think that emotions thieves and seductresses are not evil enough for me to consider excluding from a group of protagonists.

Though for some reason I feel like I'm going to write one changeling as essentially wanting to feed on others but never gets the chance to since the only ponies around happen to be her friends… Or associated with them.

Fair enough?

I can see what you mean about heroic thieves, I'm actually currently playing a game with a heroic thief as one of the main characters and I don't have a problem with that. There are often heroic thieves in fiction (generally caused by who they're stealing from and why)… But that's not what we're dealing with here, we're dealing with making literal evil monsters heroic, which can't really be justified the same way.

Hell you said it yourself a while back during one of our debates on the whole "Dark Is Not Evil" thing when you were trying to redefine it:


This is the difference between saying that a bunch of light skinned and beautiful rabbit people who live on the moon in pursuit of academic perfection are good people, and saying a monstrous horror that is mythologically known to feed on humans and drain their blood is not evil.

What you're doing now is FAR more like the second one of those!

Also, the example given, that sounds like a great setup for a comedic bad guy or something similar but doesn't put the character into a sympathetic light at all.

On another note:
@Platus: Good to hear! Still definitely gonna hit up that thread later today since I have lots of worries and problems with the gallery-locking frenzy the mods are on and I want to try and stop my favorites from getting hit.

I said I was sorta siding with Gordon on the whole changeling thing earlier, but seeing as you're still chatting about it I should clarify my case.
My arguement is based much less on the implications of making an entire race evil and more in the bounds of why you would bother clarifying when you could just… not bother…

I mean, look at it this way. I've already stated that I like the Changelings as villains. Not to say they wouldn't make cool friends, but we already have lots of cool friends and very few cool villains. So reforming them has always felt like a "meh" option based on that alone.

Now, I've sorta just been skimming the discussion so far, but it's looking like the main issue for Lunar is that it's unfair to generalize the entire Changeling race as one big "evil" lump. But here's what I think… I'd be fine with making the Changelings sorta sympathetic or give them some redeming qualities or whatever, but if they just stay as an evil hive-mind nobody is going to point any fingers. it won't be a matter of "If you're a Changeling, you're evil by defult". It'd be much more like a case of "If you're a changeling, you're literally not built with a sense of morality."

Try to change even one of them to "good" and it implies that they are in fact capable of independant thought and, therefore, have no excuse to not act like a bunch of evil jerks. Maybe if there was an episode showing how one of them broke free of whatever causes the hivemind and, by extention, gained morality, that could work just fine. But as it is now, the Changelings have already established themselves as either hivemind or just evil. How evil depends on the individual, but evil nonetheless.

(By the way, I'd say the Changelings already do have some redeming quality to shows they aren't 100% evil. Remember that one that shape-shifted to please Pinkie? They would still happily tear her apart in an instant, but they can at least humor her beforehand.)


Oh, by the way, CrashGordon, you said something to me a while ago in regards to me complaining about FlufflePuff in the Pony Poke game:

No offence dude, I can understand if this annoys you but I think you’re letting it get to you a little too much.

…Shut up. I'm allowed to get annoyed at this if I want. It's my pet peeve. I know it's petty. I can complain about my petty pet peeves if I want. It's not like anyone disagreed with me. So nyeh.

But that’s not what we’re dealing with here, we’re dealing with making literal evil monsters heroic, which can’t really be justified the same way.

Hell you said it yourself a while back during one of our debates on the whole “Dark Is Not Evil” thing when you were trying to redefine it:
What you’re doing now is FAR more like the second one of those!

Also, the example given, that sounds like a great setup for a comedic bad guy or something similar but doesn’t put the character into a sympathetic light at all.

Yes I'm well aware of this fact… And I'm aware that this current debate contrasts the other…

However, its less than contradictory in that, as you just mentioned, I would make the changeling a villain protagonist that's essentially aligned with hero protagonists mostly out of loyalty.

Similarly, like I mentioned with the other debate, I don't really like "Grimdark is not Evil" protagonists, but that doesn't mean I don't want to try something close to it just to test my limits. In that I should be capable of making a grimdark Protagonist work.

As such going with a theme of "bad beings doing good things" is the best way of approaching it without making some kind of clash of theme and execution.

And as mentioned earlier in THIS debate… Making a villain Protagonist sympathetic actually makes them less likable, regardless of if they are aligned with Heroic Protagonists.

Sorry if the last post didn't convey those notes.

In theory, making a truly heroic Changeling would be extremely difficult to justify and even more so to execute. Given the kind of things a changeling would have to go through to be truly "good" would probably physically hurt them.

I imagine its probably safer to go with a more Noble Demon approach, as it's close to the "lesser evil" thing I'm thinking now. Somewhere between pragmatic standards kept out of practicality and an "Evil has standards" viewpoint. Feeding on targets they deem appropriate without much guilt when they need it, but displaying distaste at more gluttonous predators who ruin the balance.

There's a Magic the Gathering the gathering example that's similar in a character called Soarin … It's… Not perfectly representative of what I'm getting at, but its close.

P.S. Assume I only now get the point of this debate, and that earlier I was doing something stupid like confusing "Hero" and "protagonist", and that it hadn't occurred to me to try explaining that a Villain might want to do something reasonably moral on a regular basis yet still be evil for a single lesser evil they aren't repentant about… Though it seems you've explained that later part quite well.

Last edited Aug 11, 2014 at 11:00AM EDT

um, can I just make one rather big point here. We don't actually know enough about Changelings to know if they are evil as a species or not. Chrysalis is definitely evil if you consider her actions in the comics (she may have simply been desperate for food in the show) But a) we are assuming that all Changelings are under Chrysalis's control- which is actually unlikely. If the changelings are insects, it's more likely that Chrysalis is Queen of one hive out of many- and those other hives COULD be neutral, or eve heroic.b) individual changelings might not have much choice but to follow Chrysalis- after all, Chrysalis persumably has the authority to order an attack on Equestria, and so they were following legitimate orders. To borrow a DnD analogy, they could be lawful neutral under a chaotic evil sovereign.

and again, we don't know if they HAVE to hurt the ponies they feed upon, and there is some evidence they don't- after all, Equestria seemed to recover almost immediately from the Changeling Invasion at the wedding, even though they were almost certainly feeding on the populace while others were fighting the Mane 6.

sstabeler wrote:

um, can I just make one rather big point here. We don't actually know enough about Changelings to know if they are evil as a species or not. Chrysalis is definitely evil if you consider her actions in the comics (she may have simply been desperate for food in the show) But a) we are assuming that all Changelings are under Chrysalis's control- which is actually unlikely. If the changelings are insects, it's more likely that Chrysalis is Queen of one hive out of many- and those other hives COULD be neutral, or eve heroic.b) individual changelings might not have much choice but to follow Chrysalis- after all, Chrysalis persumably has the authority to order an attack on Equestria, and so they were following legitimate orders. To borrow a DnD analogy, they could be lawful neutral under a chaotic evil sovereign.

and again, we don't know if they HAVE to hurt the ponies they feed upon, and there is some evidence they don't- after all, Equestria seemed to recover almost immediately from the Changeling Invasion at the wedding, even though they were almost certainly feeding on the populace while others were fighting the Mane 6.

Well, they are having fangs, and I'm sure they aren't using it to suck the juice out of apples.

So yeah, hehe, umm, well, there's only one problem, the vampire-effect. The vampire-effect or Zombie-effect is a term used in that situation when a creature using fangs or normal tooth to feed from the blood or the flesh of the victim, and he or she turns into the same creature during the feeding (e.g: You turn into a vampire if you were bite by a vampire). So this means the ponies which were bit must turn into a Changeling too, but, there's an another problem. How Chrysalis could feed from the love of Shining Armor if she isn't bite him? The answer is easy. In general the hivemind bugs like the ants are consisting more then one type of that ant race, for example there are the workers, they collect the food and materials what the hive needs, the guards guarding the queen and the other ants, the engineers (or call them what you want) are fixing and expanding the dong, I mean the nest. So I think the changelings are divided to different types too, and it's possible to higher ranked changelings like warriors and guards and the queen of course, are capable to feed on the pony's feelings without need to bite any of them.

Last edited Aug 11, 2014 at 01:33PM EDT

@Image gallery being considered for shut down. Nah, not going to happen for a long ass time. Maybe one day if literally all the regular posters just start Shitposting in an attempt to be like Lez Huarez or something a little more silly like the comment section going insane will they ever consider shutting down the MLP gallery. Basically what they said in that thread about it usually comes out to "There's a page for Equestria Girls but all the Equestria Girls posts end up in the MLP gallery." whereas with Alternate Universe, The Childhood Galleries and of course….the Cringeworthy gallery had problems that FAR exceeds the 'problems'. So I think the gallery is safe, FOR NOW!!!!

@Scootaloo thread……son of a bitch, out of all the times Deadparrot and I have attempted to start a Scootaloo thread something else would pop up or others would be like "Nah, Another Berry Punch thread because alcoholz!" this guy can just start up a Scootaloo thread and actually make it happen?

Fuck it, have a Scootaloo while I go to my rage dome.

Bad news @Kewln00b?, the Cringeworthy, the Alternate Universe and the Childhood galleries are locked. So the safety level's lowness is equals with the highness of happening which is presented on this meter.

Which is obviously high, but there's no hope nor chance to avoid it. We can hold it back for a short time but soon.

Last edited Aug 11, 2014 at 02:35PM EDT

Penny wrote:

Well, they are having fangs, and I'm sure they aren't using it to suck the juice out of apples.

So yeah, hehe, umm, well, there's only one problem, the vampire-effect. The vampire-effect or Zombie-effect is a term used in that situation when a creature using fangs or normal tooth to feed from the blood or the flesh of the victim, and he or she turns into the same creature during the feeding (e.g: You turn into a vampire if you were bite by a vampire). So this means the ponies which were bit must turn into a Changeling too, but, there's an another problem. How Chrysalis could feed from the love of Shining Armor if she isn't bite him? The answer is easy. In general the hivemind bugs like the ants are consisting more then one type of that ant race, for example there are the workers, they collect the food and materials what the hive needs, the guards guarding the queen and the other ants, the engineers (or call them what you want) are fixing and expanding the dong, I mean the nest. So I think the changelings are divided to different types too, and it's possible to higher ranked changelings like warriors and guards and the queen of course, are capable to feed on the pony's feelings without need to bite any of them.

I said COULD feed on ponies without hurting them, not that it was the ONLY way. In other words, a changeling getting hungry can either use some non-lethal method, or can use the fangs. Again, this is only speculation- i am just pointing out a possibility for how the changelings might not be inherently evil.

oh, and changelings biting to reproduce? they aren't vampires. If they are insects, i weould expect them to reproduce like insects- aka, Chrysalis lays them all.

sstabeler wrote:

I said COULD feed on ponies without hurting them, not that it was the ONLY way. In other words, a changeling getting hungry can either use some non-lethal method, or can use the fangs. Again, this is only speculation- i am just pointing out a possibility for how the changelings might not be inherently evil.

oh, and changelings biting to reproduce? they aren't vampires. If they are insects, i weould expect them to reproduce like insects- aka, Chrysalis lays them all.

Oh god this is the truth! Oh wait, not, all you said were insane. The changelings insect-like, not insects. My theory is they are could reproduce like insects but they also can do this like vampires. To prove this I take a real-life example not exactly like this but similiar: "[…] The Slavemaker ants are a special ant race which's habit is to steal other ants' eggs to raise them as slaves after they murdered the entire colony, this is the race's response to that fact their queens can't produce worker ants only warriors…."
So the changelings' queen(s) maybe like the slavemaker ants', can't produce workers which they are solving it by stealing foals or grown ponies, to turn them into loyal workers, also I can imagine those sacks are used to harvest the feelings, for example those sacks are putting the ponies in a sleeping state where they are dreaming about happy things only, so they would producate positive feelings which is harvested by the sack and transported to somekind of storage, maybe something like the crystal ponies' crystal heart, and later when a worker or explorer (who is going from nations to nations to find food), comes back to the sleeping ward to go back, umm, to a pod, yes, they are returning to their pods to sleep or like the Borg, regenerate and change information between each other, and these pods are connected to this storage so the workers and other low rank changelings can recharge themselves with positive feelings, while the high rank ones are capable to recharge themselves without the need of physical connection, well, it's like a WiFi, just positive feelings instead of internet.

UnKewln00b wrote:

@Image gallery being considered for shut down. Nah, not going to happen for a long ass time. Maybe one day if literally all the regular posters just start Shitposting in an attempt to be like Lez Huarez or something a little more silly like the comment section going insane will they ever consider shutting down the MLP gallery. Basically what they said in that thread about it usually comes out to "There's a page for Equestria Girls but all the Equestria Girls posts end up in the MLP gallery." whereas with Alternate Universe, The Childhood Galleries and of course….the Cringeworthy gallery had problems that FAR exceeds the 'problems'. So I think the gallery is safe, FOR NOW!!!!

@Scootaloo thread……son of a bitch, out of all the times Deadparrot and I have attempted to start a Scootaloo thread something else would pop up or others would be like "Nah, Another Berry Punch thread because alcoholz!" this guy can just start up a Scootaloo thread and actually make it happen?

Fuck it, have a Scootaloo while I go to my rage dome.

XD I didn't even try to start a scootaloo thread, i just random posted her to celebrate the new page.

@DeadParrot

That 'Life Without Ponies' promo has really helped me out, for me the hardest part of the MLP style is the backgrounds and objects, they take the longest for me to do, and I needed to do some backgrounds for something I was working on yesterday but I couldn't find any good reference material since important details were blocked by background ponies and their giant heads.
I was sat there thinking "why can't there be a whole video of just the backgrounds, with all the ponies removed!" and you sir, have answered my strangely specific prayers, thank you!

@scream11
It was an old tradition from the first pony threads that if someone starts a page with a specific pony, you post that pony until everyone gets bored.


DeadParrot222 wrote:


Last edited Aug 11, 2014 at 03:50PM EDT

Erin ◕ω◕ wrote:

@scream11
It was an old tradition from the first pony threads that if someone starts a page with a specific pony, you post that pony until everyone gets bored.


DeadParrot222 wrote:


Ah, isee. Sorry i'm new to pony threads and threads in general. But so far its really fun and i'm learning a lot from fellow fans and the community.

and again, we don’t know if they HAVE to hurt the ponies they feed upon, and there is some evidence they don’t- after all, Equestria seemed to recover almost immediately from the Changeling Invasion at the wedding, even though they were almost certainly feeding on the populace while others were fighting the Mane 6.

For some reason, reading this makes me imagine a scenario where a changeling points out to another curious pony that they COULD drain every single emotion currently in the pony to the point the pony would spend a week feeling like a hollow mess… But that it wouldn't be pleasant for either of them. Since the changeling would have to experience every terrible emotion the pony has while they're draining them.

It's for reasons like this that its possible to see them as "not purely villainous", but as Crash is very good at pointing out, it doesn't seem to be capable of pushing back the moral horizon to the point they can be seen as pure good. Mainly because as it seems to be clear from how crash sees things, parasitism does class as evil to SOME people, even in cases where the feeding isn't harmful, due to the fact its still consuming someone else's resources.

What I realized somewhere between last page and this page is that it IS possible to concede that its too hard depict them as being completely devoid of evil, but that its possible to essentially counter argue that they can be depicted as such a terribly light evil, with at least some form of standard high enough, that the fact that they're evil doesn't strictly speaking matter.

The only hard part in arguing this to Crash is how hard it is to explain that just because they're evil in exactly this one regard, doesn't mean they can't spend the rest of their time doing benign, good, or even heroic things and still be "Evil" and even still be non sympathetic.

Because the essence of the argument between me and crash isn't strictly speaking about whether they ARE good or evil… Its about whether they can DO good (and to a lesser extent evil), while being one of the protagonists in a team of protagonist "heroes" that already includes characters of varying moralities ranging from almost every point in the moral spectrum except for tyranny and "everyone dies".

But that's just about my argument… Based on the fact that the story I am trying to write is basically "a few young adults of every sentient race in Equestria are plucked from the world and told they have to repopulate the species, and have to beat several tyrants and omnicidal maniacs before they can do that."

… And to be fair… Outside of the whole "monster of the week" style stuff that happens, there's not really anything that can make it a "good or evil" story. The moment none of their lives are in danger it essentially reverts to a slice of life story where literally no other ponies exist outside of their group that is already either friends, or quickly becoming friends; which is the part where you realize that actually BEING good or evil is mostly impossible.

…In mainly the sense that if you aren't capable of doing bad things to friends, and doing good things for those you aren't friends with is not an option… Then for all intents and purposes, Good and Evil are meaningless.

No Original Names wrote:

Ah, isee. Sorry i'm new to pony threads and threads in general. But so far its really fun and i'm learning a lot from fellow fans and the community.

Mewtoo, wait that was a pokemon pun, ah hell deal with it!

So, this morning is started with, I'm seeing my mailbox is full of letters!

You guys post too much. But I love it!
So I have nothing to post, expect this:

Yeah, I'm in a quiet nostalgic mood. Do not disturb me.

Luna Protege wrote:

and again, we don’t know if they HAVE to hurt the ponies they feed upon, and there is some evidence they don’t- after all, Equestria seemed to recover almost immediately from the Changeling Invasion at the wedding, even though they were almost certainly feeding on the populace while others were fighting the Mane 6.

For some reason, reading this makes me imagine a scenario where a changeling points out to another curious pony that they COULD drain every single emotion currently in the pony to the point the pony would spend a week feeling like a hollow mess… But that it wouldn't be pleasant for either of them. Since the changeling would have to experience every terrible emotion the pony has while they're draining them.

It's for reasons like this that its possible to see them as "not purely villainous", but as Crash is very good at pointing out, it doesn't seem to be capable of pushing back the moral horizon to the point they can be seen as pure good. Mainly because as it seems to be clear from how crash sees things, parasitism does class as evil to SOME people, even in cases where the feeding isn't harmful, due to the fact its still consuming someone else's resources.

What I realized somewhere between last page and this page is that it IS possible to concede that its too hard depict them as being completely devoid of evil, but that its possible to essentially counter argue that they can be depicted as such a terribly light evil, with at least some form of standard high enough, that the fact that they're evil doesn't strictly speaking matter.

The only hard part in arguing this to Crash is how hard it is to explain that just because they're evil in exactly this one regard, doesn't mean they can't spend the rest of their time doing benign, good, or even heroic things and still be "Evil" and even still be non sympathetic.

Because the essence of the argument between me and crash isn't strictly speaking about whether they ARE good or evil… Its about whether they can DO good (and to a lesser extent evil), while being one of the protagonists in a team of protagonist "heroes" that already includes characters of varying moralities ranging from almost every point in the moral spectrum except for tyranny and "everyone dies".

But that's just about my argument… Based on the fact that the story I am trying to write is basically "a few young adults of every sentient race in Equestria are plucked from the world and told they have to repopulate the species, and have to beat several tyrants and omnicidal maniacs before they can do that."

… And to be fair… Outside of the whole "monster of the week" style stuff that happens, there's not really anything that can make it a "good or evil" story. The moment none of their lives are in danger it essentially reverts to a slice of life story where literally no other ponies exist outside of their group that is already either friends, or quickly becoming friends; which is the part where you realize that actually BEING good or evil is mostly impossible.

…In mainly the sense that if you aren't capable of doing bad things to friends, and doing good things for those you aren't friends with is not an option… Then for all intents and purposes, Good and Evil are meaningless.

depends on the parasitism. I've read some fanfics, for example, where ponies naturally give off love anyway- and a changeling can feed off of that, without the ponies even noticing.

but yeah, the way I see it is that Changlings as a race are more or less neutral- that it is individuals that are evil.

To give another example: individual Wehrmacht soldiers weren't evil just because they were serving Nazi Germany. ( nor, incidentally, were individual members of the nazi party- especially since membership was, IIRC, more or less compulsory if you wanted a decent job.)

again, Chrysalis is evil. She wiped out the natives wherever she landed up from being blasted. Individual changelings? may well not be.


Anything going on?

No?



Scootaloo Dance Party!



@Dr Whooves
Oh, well, happy to be unintentionally helpful!
There are a number of vector groups out there who have put in the time to reconstruct backgrounds and things like that that you could possibly use as well.


Okay, back to being sad about Robin Williams again…

@Parasitsm

You know, I happen to be toying with an idea related to this concept.

So, picture yourself a vampire. Something like, say, Count Orlok. Now, this particular fiend is a clever one. Instead of preying on those foolish enough to brave the night, which can be quite risky even for a being of preternatural terror, this one lets the prey come to him.

You see, he is a spymaster of sorts. He has a vast network of informants, and sells secrets to interested parties, such as the less-than-scrupulous nobility looking to stage a scandal for an inconvenient rival. But, this peddling is merely a bonus. The true task of these informants is to recruit warm bags of blood from the ranks of vagabonds, street scum, prostitutes, those who will not be missed by anyone of consequence.

The promise of a better life is most tempting to those who have so little. Even an offer from a shady scoundrel with clear ulterior motives is often preferable to begging in the freezing cold. And how bad can being a servant in an old, remote castle be even at it's worst, eh?

The new arrivals are greeted by the master of the castle. Of course, he's merely the legitimate front, the latest offspring of the largely-forgotten noble lineage which "owns" the estate. The fresh servants are then treated to a few weeks of just being your average servant. Not the most prestigious job in the world, but at least there's food, a warm bed and a roof over the head. And an old castle is certainly a more luxurious locale than the filth-ridden streets. But the true master of puppets eventually needs his fill of vitae, and so the new recruits are led, one-by-one, to the bowels of the castle, to that darkest of sanctums. There, they are fed upon.

But, there's a little twist to all this. They are not sucked dry.

Instead, when they recover, they find themselves in a bed most luxurious and comfortable. Of course, the pleasantness of the situation is somewhat diminished by the fact that a grotesque abomination sits beside them. He introduces himself in a most gentlemanly manner, and explains to them that they have two choices.

They can return to their old life in the streets. It's not like they know the location of the castle well enough to point it out on a map, and who'd believe the rantings of some deranged beggar anyhow? Or, they can stay here and live in relative comfort, all that's asked of them in return is a small donation of blood every now and then and that they take care of their comrades.

Oh yes, comrades. This sort of operation requires quite a bit of manpower. To make sure nobody dies from loosing too much blood, one needs many warm bodies on rotation so that the fresh "victims" can recover in time. And mortals don't last forever, new recruits are needed whenever the veterans get too old and frail for the job. Of course, they get to enjoy a good, cushy retirement for services rendered.

Keeping up a veritable army of such servants isn't cheap, of course. Where do you think all the money made from the whole spying gig ends up, eh? An immortal has little interest in shiny baubles unless they can be used for something important.

And for a sentimental old beast such as this, what could be more important than the life of downtrodden beggar?

An immortal has little interest in shiny baubles unless they can be used for something important.

… That is of course unless the immortal happens to be a very hedonistic sort. But of course, entertainment comes cheap nowdays.

I feel like this is the first time that using this image here has been relevant to the conversation… Even if it is a punchline.

Lunar Protege wrote:

That is of course unless the immortal happens to be a very hedonistic sort.

I'd argue that the bloodsucker in question is a hedonistic sort. After all, he chooses to weave this careful web of intrigue precisely because he wants an easy, largely care-free existence.

It seems to me that people often forget the simple fact that money, in and of itself, is worthless. Some of the things it can buy, however, are not. The phrase "money can't buy happiness" has always bothered me because while it is technically true, it blatantly ignores the fact that money can buy things which will help you traverse the long, arduous path to happiness.

Of course, what those things are tends to be a riddle you can't find a ready-made answer for.

Brownmane the Knight wrote:

Lunar Protege wrote:

That is of course unless the immortal happens to be a very hedonistic sort.

I'd argue that the bloodsucker in question is a hedonistic sort. After all, he chooses to weave this careful web of intrigue precisely because he wants an easy, largely care-free existence.

It seems to me that people often forget the simple fact that money, in and of itself, is worthless. Some of the things it can buy, however, are not. The phrase "money can't buy happiness" has always bothered me because while it is technically true, it blatantly ignores the fact that money can buy things which will help you traverse the long, arduous path to happiness.

Of course, what those things are tends to be a riddle you can't find a ready-made answer for.

I was more trying to point out that not everything an immortal hedonist buys is necessarily important; yet subverting that self-same opinion by noting that most unimportant things a hedonist would buy are also kind of cheap.

Namely food and entertainment in most cases… But in the case of Vampires only the latter is cheap.

In other words, its hardly meant as actual counter-argument so much as a witty retort, since it hardly changes the fact that beyond the occasional cheap thrill, an immortal would spend the majority of their money on things that are important for keeping their life relatively carefree.

If I was trying to make an actual counter argument… I'd mention that a lot of real life and fictional hedonists have been known to arrange vast and expensive revelries with anywhere from a few dozen guests to hundreds depending on the form of hedonism; where either way, no expense is spared for the sake of pleasure.

However, a particular brand of "Greek style" hedonism that often comes to mind when the word is used is more popular among those that realize life isn't forever; and contrasts with more late era British/European hedonism where nobles spare no expense for the sake of a more high class and organized pleasure that's usually used in Vampire aesthetic.

@Lunar Protege

Oh, I'm not meaning to argue here, just clarifying. As much to myself as to the rest of you, in fact. The idea's very much work in progress, after all.

I'd argue the food can also be cheap. Of course, it's a whole lot more risky and a whole lot less clean that way, which is why over-ambitious fledglings so often end up with a stake in their chest.

Yes, hedonism is known for it's extravagance. But I'd say that's yet another case of the vocal minority gaining disproportionate representation in the public view. Given how folks tend to see such revelry negatively, a fair bet is that the smart hedonist keeps his business small-scale and under wraps.

I'd say the Greek style of hedonism applies in a strangely reversed way here. The vampire himself is immortal, but those under his care are not. Thus, he insures that they live out their lives in comfort and he derives his enjoyment from being a father figure to them.

I guess you could consider the character a subversion of the archetypal vampiric nobleman. He has all the trappings of an exploitative employer, but only because he has no way of operating his business otherwise. He genuinely wants to give the people the world has rejected a better life, the fact that it's also an effective method of prolonging his own unlife is merely a bonus.

But perhaps I'm putting far too much thought into this. He's intended to be a side character in a story about a fallen knight, a high-class thief, an empath snake and an undead mamluk who end up getting tricked into killing an emperor and try to stay one step ahead of the authorities, who curiously enough have orders to bring them back alive and (relatively) unharmed. So yeah. Maybe I should stop before I start ranting about the sect of pagans with an ancient half-unicorn leader hiding in the woods or something.

Sorry for being off-topic guys, but I thought it might be fun to show off my power level merch collection.



Also, you can see my tiny table.

And some shoes.

Last edited Aug 13, 2014 at 10:00PM EDT

Sonata Dusk wrote:

Sorry for being off-topic guys, but I thought it might be fun to show off my power level merch collection.



Also, you can see my tiny table.

And some shoes.

Oooooh, tiny table, I love tiny tables! They are so cute! Just like the tiny boxes!

Speaking of merch: While collecting the funko ponies I decided to keep the boxes cus they were cool and my mom gave me a compulsion to save boxes. Turns out I was a frikin genius for saving them because I'm moving house and now I can put my figures safely back in their boxes for the move. My plushes are not as lucky, though. The poor guys have to be suffocated in a plastic garbage bag for the time being. I can just see them over in the corner, face pressed against the plastic, gasping for air. It's gonna give me nightmares, man.

@merchandise Say where can i get some good merch? I'm not of a fan of the Hasbro ones where the resemblance to the ACTUAL FREAKING CHARACTERS is terrible, i specifically want a Fluttershy Plushie as it would just fill me with joy :3.

No Original Names wrote:

@merchandise Say where can i get some good merch? I'm not of a fan of the Hasbro ones where the resemblance to the ACTUAL FREAKING CHARACTERS is terrible, i specifically want a Fluttershy Plushie as it would just fill me with joy :3.

Probably your best bet is to commission something – though it is expensive. The upside is that you get a hand-made (!) plushie built to your specifications.

DeadParrot has more commissions under his belt than probably anyone else here, so maybe you could ask him who gives the best bang for your buck?

No Original Names wrote:

@merchandise Say where can i get some good merch? I'm not of a fan of the Hasbro ones where the resemblance to the ACTUAL FREAKING CHARACTERS is terrible, i specifically want a Fluttershy Plushie as it would just fill me with joy :3.

Deadparrot is your best option for finding a plushie seller for you that's within your price range, but I'll put in my two cents. As far as plushies go there is the decent option of getting a plush from build-a-bear. The brushable hair isn't that great but the anatomy/proportion is really on point and they're available either online or in-store for like $25 (pretty good price for that sized plush). Really, Hasbro's been doing a great job at selling merch that resembles the characters lately.

No Original Names wrote:

@merchandise Say where can i get some good merch? I'm not of a fan of the Hasbro ones where the resemblance to the ACTUAL FREAKING CHARACTERS is terrible, i specifically want a Fluttershy Plushie as it would just fill me with joy :3.

If you don't mind waiting several months, you should be able to order Fluttershy from 4DE sometime soon. Their plushies are pretty cheap (in price, not quality), and, if my adorable Twilight is anything to go by, extra soft and cuddly.

Here's the EQD announcement for Fluttershy, and here's the announcement for other ponies. They're planning on releasing Applejack and Big McIntosh around that time too.

Fifths wrote:

Oh shit, has there been another plush master sighting?

I want to believe…


@Crimson
Your ponies staring at you from their plastic prison in the corner is perhaps one of the saddest images I've conjured into my head in quite sometime…
It also made me think of ponies and trashcans which led to remembering this:

Now I'm sad-laughing and I don't know what's going on!


@scream

Yep, like the others said, it all depends what you want and how much you have to spend.
I would definitely recommend the 4DE Fluttershy that is supposed to be the next out as she is quite high quality while still being mass-produced and cheap (Should be $25 if she's the same as Twilight and Pinkie).

If you want to go for custom-made stuff, you have tons of options but they will likely be more expensive as they are put together on a one-to-one basis just for you.
If you are wanting to go that route, I'd start by scanning through some plushie groups (like this one or this one), find someone whose style you like, and then check their pages to see if they are taking commissions, if they have prices listed, etc.
If everything looks good, drop them a note to ask them about commissioning what you'd like.
One big thing with artists: Be respectful.
You'll be dealing with a person, not a corporate factory, so treat them as such.
Depending on what and who you go for, you may be asking them for dozens of hours of work so keep that in mind.
That said, they are largely a very nice group of people who love doing what they do and are almost always happy to talk over ideas.

If you need any other tips, I'm happy to help.
These are just some good starting points and guidelines.


Everybody likes Larson, right?
Here's a video of his panel from GalaCon that I think is quite interesting:

He basically goes through the whole process of creating an episode from the perspective of a writer, detailing how ideas appear and change throughout as notes are passed back and forth and new drafts are written using one episode as a running example.
That episode just so happens to be my favorite season one episode, Cutie Mark Chronicles too, so that's extra cool.
The most interesting parts are when he is talking about how so much of what we now take for granted as canon were just ideas thrown out to push a story forward or to create a rationale for an action or just to make something funnier.
Who knew that Larson is basically solely responsible for Scootaloo's Rainbow Dash obsession simply because he needed something to drive the story between all the various flashbacks?
It is also pretty funny to realize just how much the writers, producers and Lauren figured out on the fly as even this late-season episode had plenty of holes that needed filling in simply because no episode had dealt with them up to that point.

Anyway, if you are interested in some behind-the-scenes stuff and have a spare hour, it's a nice listen with a lot of little tidbits.

Last edited Aug 15, 2014 at 01:40AM EDT

No Original Names wrote:

@the nice people who gave recommended stuff
Thanks for the help guys i really appreciate it now maybe i can hug fluttershy in the privacy of my home :D


Sorry, I can't miss this.

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