Forums / Maintenance / Suggest Ideas

So, quite a few people have noted that the karma system, while functional, isn't exactly the best. Without some sort of guidance, and the diversity of boards, combined with it showing up on your profile, it isn't all too effective. Users who are otherwise good but spend a fair amount of time making bad shitposts in Riff-Raff have a bad-looking negative score right on their profile, for example. Also, Karma may be discouraging people from taking risks, while not diminishing the amount of users that are disliked by a significant amount. So, with this in mind, I listed six ideas here to change and try to improve the current system.

• Change the single +/- system to two sets of buttons, one labeled something along the lines of "Agree/Disagree" and the other "Funny/Unfunny".

These two metrics could be represented in the user's profile plenty easily, from what I can tell. This would avoid the issue of shitposters looking like shit users when they're basically just using Riff-Raff for what it's intended for, for example. It'd also make the system more representative and effective in general. Users who state liked opinions will be easily differentiated from users who are hilarious.

This idea can be changed to have more and/or different types of buttons, akin to what places like ED have. I picked the two that seemed the most relevant and simple.

• Change exact karma numbers to words on profiles.

The exact numbers can be still visible by hovering over the name. This can help give a more accurate idea of what each number means. Someone with roughly no net karma produced by roughly the same amount of upvotes and downvotes can have a word such as "controversial". A user with a good amount of votes on their posts (say, 100) and an 80% upvote rate could be given something like "Liked". The general idea continues. Different words can be used for different tones, to avoid possible issues with certain kinds.

This is kinda like how Steam's game rating system is.

This can be combined with idea 1.

• Limit times between voting.

This will avoid possible issues with upvote-bombing (and fixes the criticism "Why warn for upvoting? 'Oh there's the upvote button, we aren't going to tell you how to use it, but you may get warned for using it a certain way'.") and melds well with the first idea, in that it'll keep from making it harder on the system to have two buttons to process.

• Remove Karma.

This was suggested by others. Basically, the thing is, if you are new to the forums, it's a bit scary, due to the fact that getting downvoted will show up on your profile as a mark against you. The comments don't have any such system, and thus it's much less concerning to get yourself out there.

On the other hand, there have been very few bad users who have actually left the site over karma, at least that we know of. The ones who leave or change behavior due to karma often don't cause any issues in the first place, as far as I know; the ones that don't tend to not care at all.

Thus, this logic effectively argues that karma really only stunts good contributions and taking risks.

• Hide Karma.

This is an adaption of the "remove karma" idea. You keep karma on a post-by-post basis, and thus keep the "burying" function with far less issue about discouraging contributing and taking risks. Possibly also raise the amount required to bury.

Karma would be removed from profiles and you can't see it on any posts, but it works behind the scenes, deciding if a post should be "buried".

Also, possibly, if this is implemented, also add a way to show that a post is popular. Just a single method, like maybe a small gold star, or text saying that the post is liked. Karma will still be hidden, but it'll have effects.

If you don't like the idea of burying, this can still be implemented with hidden karma.

• Remove Karma from the profile only.

If this was implemented, it would no longer be a hard-to-remove mark if you make a few bad posts when you first start using the forums, and then change to say things that are more liked. I've seen this once before – a guy said a few things that people didn't like, went way into the negative, and then turned into a decent user. But he was stuck way in the negative for over a year.

Thoughts? Contributions? Issues you have with this? Think the current system is fine?

I like remove karma from profile only the best

I agree with removing karma from profile. That ought to keep people from giving you hell based on mere internet points. It should make more users feel safe when using the forums.

Well this discussion has come up numerous times. Here are my responses to each idea.

Now a sidebit, which is kinda a TL;DR, kinda just rambling. Without karma, people are more free to express themselves because they won't be graded by an intimidating scoring system that quantifies a user's behavior. However, this can cause an increase in poor behavior. Because the system no longer bears down on the user, they have nothing to "fear" anymore and just shitpost to their hearts desire without anyone recording it which in the first place was what made them hesitate and be more considerate in their posting.

Like, what's the point now that I no longer receive that sweet… juicy… internet karma?

Oh, and a small question I hope you won't mind me asking. If a user hits the like/dislike button or upvote/downvote button, are they able to retract that vote? Say someone hits dislike on accident, can they undislike it? I recall that this wasn't something you could do, and perhaps it was brought up and never fixed, or my memory is a little foggy.

edit: formatting, neatness, that kind of jazz.

Another thing, I realized I mixed some of my thoughts with remove karma entirely and remove karma from profile, but I think my points are still clear.

I also agree with removing the Karma count from profiles. It can lead to false impressions of new users if they make a really shitty thread in Riff-Raff and get downvoted thus making them seem like a bad user. You also need to consider the fact that there are "downvote threads" from time to time where people post in the thread to receive downvotes.

Maybe consider adding the 5-second wait time as well to prevent karma bombing since that's what slows the site down?

Forum karma should stay the way it is now, and users should be able to select whether or not they want their karma displayed on their profiles (with the default being not displayed).

I've heard this one before, the only negative I can think of is that those that display their karma may be regarded as "attention seekers" since they're willing to show their stats, considering that they are good to begin with.

Not a big problem, just something I've always thought of when this has been brought up.

I'm with Muffin, but I'd rather an opt out system rather than opt in. We don't want to end up in a situation where the general user-base is completely unaware of a feature we have.

If we do anything to the system, maybe give people a Recent Karma Ratio meter that sits above or can be switched out with the Lifetime Karma. This would help alleviate the permanent record taint while still keeping people vigilant.

I'd rather provide options rather than immediately strip away what is already established.

@Xin

+/-: That's kinda the point. Without a direct focus the +/- system can be used however people want. This makes it unable to represent anything directly. So people with unliked opinions look the same as people who make bad or poorly timed jokes.

Also, about the political thing – that's already happening. Changing it to agree/disagree might not change much there.

Word can possibly be changed for different meanings, or more buttons could be added.

Words:

Again not bad, but can we compare games to user activity?

Just giving a visual example of what it'd be like.

If combined with the first idea, your concerns don't seem to be applicable anymore.

Time Limit: It's already added to the comments section. Now we just have to worry about someone crashing the site by upvoting the forums.

Given how much the site slows down when someone karma-bombs, it's not all that hard. It's happened quite a few times. A time limit would at least make it way less effective.

Remove Karma: Fair enough argument.

Hide Karma: Same.

Remove Karma from Profiles:

I don’t know, I think it’s nice to see karma, it shows the general behavior of a user.

Again, it kinda sucks for new users who say a few bad things, which has happened.

Oh, and a small question I hope you won’t mind me asking. If a user hits the like/dislike button or upvote/downvote button, are they able to retract that vote?

Nope. It's stuck that way, presumably to keep karma bombing from happening.

You also need to consider the fact that there are “downvote threads” from time to time where people post in the thread to receive downvotes.

That's a good point as well, and just points to a point I made – Karma has no set purpose, so it can be used however anyone wants. Because of this, it's kinda hard to get a true idea of what a user is like from their Karma.

@Opt in/out system

I love that idea, actually, and I personally prefer the opt-out version.

If we do anything to the system, maybe give people a Recent Karma Ratio meter that sits above or can be switched out with the Lifetime Karma.

Maybe something like Karma in past month? That sounds like a really good idea to me. I like that one.

^
I think the opt-out system would be best, so that those that simply don't like the karma system can get it out of their minds, while others that like it can keep it. There really aren't any negative aspects to it.

Going back to the +/- and word system, it's just a bit different from what so many other sites use with generic numerical upvotes and downvotes. That's really it, it's just different, I can't tell that if it was implemented, would it actually be helpful? Is there enough reason to use this over +/- which has existed for so long?
Personally I think in certain situations it would be very beneficial. This would be my second choice, I think it's not bad. Just some minor tinkering on how it would be displayed on the profile.

Question is, while the discussion here is good and some ideas are better received than others, will any actually be implemented? How come in the past when we had similar threads no fruit was produced?

A major peeve I have experienced numerous times on this site, is that people won't explain why they downvote posts. I don't care if I got downvoted, but can you at least state your reason for why you did.

All I'm doing is stating my own reactions to each idea. If you disagree with my ideas, whoever you are, that is fine, but explain your reasons for downvoting me so it can at least stimulate a conversation, rather than leaving me with more red internet points. This would be where the word system/funny/unfunny/agree/disagree would be useful. It doesn't leave users confused with why they get negative karma.

Just a little rant section, this can't exactly be fixed, but if we use some of the new suggestions discussed in this thread it can certainly help.

Karma is fine as it is. Those that complain about its inefficiency are commonly those who get their panties in a knot over downvotes.

Change the single +/- system to two sets of buttons, one labeled something along the lines of “Agree/Disagree” and the other “Funny/Unfunny”.

This is the only suggestion I like. It seperates good discussion from funny stuff, thus making it more clear where a person got his sweet uptokens from (the Fun or General board).

So yeah, cool idea.

Change exact karma numbers to words on profiles.

So Karma titles.

Lame.

Limit times between voting.

While necessary in the comment section where everyone just uptokes like mad, not so much necessary in the forum. Even if you make it 5 seconds, it usually takes you longer to get to the next post, so won't help.

But hey, the system is already there, so implementing it won't hurt anyone.

Remove Karma.

Hide Karma.

No. The karma system is in place to reward folks for good contributions and make them think twice before bad contributions, and it works. If people wonder why they got bad karma, they know they did a dumb, and thus the system works. It keeps folks in control, and shows them an easy way to adapt their posts to how they're received.

What Xin said basically.

Remove Karma from the profile only.

Those that act like retards constantly can use this as an easy way to hide their degeneracy from the public eye. What is the purpose of karma if it doesn't reflect back on the user. If you don't want those negative points to turn up on your profile, think twice before posting.

It's not that people dislike karma, it's that they dislike negative karma. Those that complain about the karma commonly have such thin skin that they mentally can't handle being downvoted on a memesite. They only want to be rewarded, but not punished.

Karma exists to shape users into better posters. Let them know what they did right and what they shoudn't do again.

The idea of these points systems from KYM's perspective is also to be more like social media, so things like Facebook's upvote system, and in that way karma must be kept and you shouldn't expect the staff to remove it.

Therefore your best bet for change would be to split up the system, so the first idea: Instead of just up- and downvotes, voting is seperated into voting on funniness and just good discussion quality. This also falls in line with the update on Facebook's vote system, where folks can now add various emotions to a post including anger.

Why is it a bad idea to remove karma and how is karma in anyway effective?
Barely anyone uses the system to get rid of non-contributing posts, they use it to show they dislike a certain opinion and move on. It doesn't shape users into making good posts, it shapes users into only posting opinions the majority likes. Showing karma on somebodies wall only gives off the mentality of "avoid this user, they have bad opinions that do not matter, meaning they are the worst person ever".
It doesn't make sense when in one post you can be downvoted and buried for your ideas on the state of isis and what psychological effect it has on the world and then in another post be upvoted like crazy for saying you like a video game everyone else likes, and then have it effect how the public views you.
Sure there are cases where the karma system works and someone just posts a really off topic/insensitive post thats not needed and it gets downvoted. But thats far and few between people just downvoting for disagreeing with opinions.
Somebody can be a great poster in general and everywhere else but only get a few upvotes for not really making popular opinions but not ones people hate, but then only post about butts in riff raff and gets downvoted all the time. Does this make them a not contributing user who should be shunned once their profile is seen because it has a majority percentage of downvotes? No, but thats how this karma system works and thats why its utterly useless, it promotes a near bullying mentality and treats users as numbers and not individual users. So why do we keep it? It doesn't keep people in control, it near censors them, and it just changes people into people who agree with your opinions.

To add onto what NON said: Karma can be used in ways that may be seen as less than good by some, in its current state. At the worst, it can be easily used (I avoid using abused or misused because there is no "right" way to use it) to suppress unliked opinions. Seriously, only two or three users with a bit of wisdom and motivation would be all it takes to help change the entire tone of the forums.

There are better ways to use it, but still fall under the manipulation range. For example, upvoting comments that are getting downvoted for simply having a different opinion, so as to help reduce the effects of minority belief suppression. I've done this a few times. But in order for this to be acceptable, the flip side must also be, at the very least, possible, if not acceptable.

The basic issue I have with it is this: In reality, it's nigh-meaningless, but it's treated as if it has meaning.

That karma number on your profile, it's really unreliable. You could try to sum it up by saying that it's the culmination of what people thought about your posts over time, but that's not accurate. There are downvote threads. There are brigades. And sometimes, say, a post gets shared on the IRC or somewhere else and a lot more people see it than normal, and thus it gets more upvotes/downvotes.

Lets think real quick about what would happen if the karma system was removed. What would happen to those posts that are bad, that people don't like?

Well, they'd get responded to more often.

Just today I made a comment expecting some level of logical discourse. I shouldn't have expected that, because it's the comments section, but meh. I got 3 downvotes when I checked earlier and no response, despite the comment not being inflammatory.

In this very thread, Everyone who has advocated for the current system has been downvoted. RM's post was downvoted twice. Both of Xin's posts got downvoted once.

Now, even assuming that NON did it – since other than me, who has only upvoted in this thread, he's the only one who responded to them – there's still a missing downvote for RM's post.

Those are just a few examples of what we've all seen – downvoting without explanation. People downvote and think that's enough. I know I've done it more than once, but that's only when someone's being an extreme idiot or someone else has already responded.

But then, what's the point if someone already responded? It's just a way of repressing what they said.

And if they're being an extreme idiot, well, we know that those tend to not be dissuaded by memepoints very often.

So, to the point I was making – removing, or at least reducing the consequences of up/downvotes, could potentially increase discussions and responses.

So, to recap – we have a system that's practically meaningless, can be used in less than savory ways easily, is used in less than savory ways, and might be reducing conversation.

So are we gonna just let this fade into obscurity and have nothing done or are we gonna get an actual response saying "we'll consider it" or "no its never gonna happen"? Because this happens every time people have suggestions on this site, we let it fade into nothing because none of us want to make any change and just wanna keep things how they are and it really makes me wonder why we have this Suggest Ideas section if nothing ever gets done.

I sympathize the idea of hiding karma from our profiles, it should make new users more comfortable and less concerned about making a first bad impression or something like that

[NON's entire rant about karma]

"Karma isn't used the way I believe is correct, therefore the system is wrong and should disappear!"

Rivers' post was better in how he worded his arguments, so I'll hopefully get to your points in my reply to his post.

Karma can be used in ways that may be seen as less than good by some, in its current state. At the worst, it can be easily used (I avoid using abused or misused because there is no “right” way to use it) to suppress unliked opinions.

While I won't support things like brigading and bombing, it's not exactly difficult to use karma correctly. You upvote posts that you like, you downvote posts that you dislike. It's not rocket science.

Sure, reasons for which one may up- or downvote differ, but that's fine. It's up to the giver how they distribute their votes, because votes are subjective.

What makes anyone here some karma expert? A karma-guru, writer of the karma-sutra, leading users to the karma-valhalla? Just because we don't like how people distribute their votes doesn't mean they're doing it wrong and that the system is wrong.

Karma is a subjective system, but you're treating it like it can be used objectively wrong.

The basic issue I have with it is this: In reality, it’s nigh-meaningless, but it’s treated as if it has meaning.

Well, that's up to the thread where the votes are distributed. I'd say that for example in my Photoshop contests, the karma each posts gathers is a good measurment of how people judge the quality and humor of the photoshops; same for other Fun! threads.

That karma number on your profile, it’s really unreliable. You could try to sum it up by saying that it’s the culmination of what people thought about your posts over time, but that’s not accurate. There are downvote threads. There are brigades. And sometimes, say, a post gets shared on the IRC or somewhere else and a lot more people see it than normal, and thus it gets more upvotes/downvotes.

Downvote threads and brigading happens very VERY little, and even in the cases where brigading happened we got James to reset the brigader's given karma. IRC (and other site chats) post sharing happens more often, but I wouldn't say that's wrong to do, because it means someone found their post funny (or unfunny) enough to share.

Lets think real quick about what would happen if the karma system was removed. What would happen to those posts that are bad, that people don’t like?
Well, they’d get responded to more often.

I sincerely doubt it.

Let's say you get one good reply, which covers what others want to say as well. Would you want a similar reply 5 more times? Or would you instead prefer 10 replies making up a variety of "^this" and "bless this post" and "second" image macros? Karma and voting is an easy way to give your support to a post in an discussion and removes the need to repeat said point constantly or make posts for the sole reason of showing your support.

Or would you instead prefer the opposite, that instead of downvoting people reply with "deactivate your account" and "kill yourself"? How is that an improvement? Sure, we can then hunt down those users more easily as mods, but it's not supporting a respectful community.

So you might get more replies, but all those replies will be redundancy or dumb image macros or perhaps even insults. Those that can word their arguments will reply, as they already do now; and those that can't or no longer need to will rely on the buttons.

You're assuming all new replies you believe you'll be getting are actually good posts and not dumb ones. It's better to assume you'll have a larger increase in dumb replies than good ones.

Just today I made a comment expecting some level of logical discourse. I shouldn’t have expected that, because it’s the comments section, but meh. I got 3 downvotes when I checked earlier and no response, despite the comment not being inflammatory.

>3 downvotes

You expecting me to throw a lifeline now? That's hardly brigading or bombing. It just shows you hit some nerves, so take those downvotes with pride.

In this very thread, Everyone who has advocated for the current system has been downvoted. RM’s post was downvoted twice. Both of Xin’s posts got downvoted once.

And I also got upvoted 5 times, and replied to twice. I'd say that gives me a good idea of how my post is received. I don't need to know the identity of my downvoters.

Those are just a few examples of what we’ve all seen – downvoting without explanation. People downvote and think that’s enough. I know I’ve done it more than once, but that’s only when someone’s being an extreme idiot or someone else has already responded.

So, to the point I was making – removing, or at least reducing the consequences of up/downvotes, could potentially increase discussions and responses.

Read above.

So are we gonna just let this fade into obscurity and have nothing done or are we gonna get an actual response saying “we’ll consider it” or “no its never gonna happen”? Because this happens every time people have suggestions on this site, we let it fade into nothing because none of us want to make any change and just wanna keep things how they are and it really makes me wonder why we have this Suggest Ideas section if nothing ever gets done.

>no reply for 1 day
>"thread is falling into obscurity and Suggest Ideas is C O N F I R M E D useless!"

Now this may come as a shocker to you: We actually have lives.

Also, I already replied to this one in my previous post, so please pay attention, take a reading assistant if necessary, because I'm going to repeat it:

The idea of these points systems from KYM’s perspective is also to be more like social media and other websites. Voting systems exists on all forms of popular social media: Facebook, Youtube, Reddit, nearly every website with a comment section below their articles. So KYM is intentionally maintaining such a system as well, in order to present familiarity to site visitors and be similar to nearly every popular piece of mainstream media out there.

So from KYM's perspective, you shouldn’t expect the staff to remove voting and karma.

Which is why I said your best bet would be to improve the system instead, like Facebook did by adding various emotions to the posts.

The first idea is thus your best bet: Splitting up the system; so that insead of just up- and downvotes, voting is seperated into voting on funniness and just good discussion quality.

After several debates in a short period of time, I don't have the mental energy to write up another longpost arguing back, so I'll just say that your points are fairly good. I just want a more precise, intelligible system – which you support in your final paragraph.

The first idea is thus your best bet: Splitting up the system; so that insead of just up- and downvotes, voting is seperated into voting on funniness and just good discussion quality.

This seems to be the most widely liked among those I've talked to, next to removing karma from profiles only. So lets talk about that.

I assume we're going for a two button system. (And again, to help with possible brigading and just accidentally slowing down the site by mass-upvoting because you wanted to give people Karma, I think a 5 second delay should be included.) What would be the name of the buttons? Agree/Disagree, people have pointed out, could lead to more of a circlejerk than actual useful discussion. Funny/Unfunny has mostly bee accepted.

We could use something more like Good Point / Bad Point. Something along the lines of "Well expressed" but short enough to fit in.

+1 / -1 Book for being a good read.
+1 / -1 Smiley Face for being funny.

"Now this may come as a shocker to you: We actually have lives."
It takes five minutes to write a post, its not that hard to say "your ideas are shit and heres a few reasons why" or "this is good idea, we could implement it a few months down the line". I've seen lots of threads with good ideas just be ignored and left to die because nobody wants to change anything, it really doesn't take that long out of your day to write a forum post.

Even if the karma system is meant to be for familiarity and to be like other sites you treat it like its a system for behavior:
"No. The karma system is in place to reward folks for good contributions and make them think twice before bad contributions, and it works. If people wonder why they got bad karma, they know they did a dumb, and thus the system works. It keeps folks in control, and shows them an easy way to adapt their posts to how they’re received."
"Karma exists to shape users into better posters. Let them know what they did right and what they shoudn’t do again."
But then you say things like this:
"Karma is a subjective system, but you’re treating it like it can be used objectively wrong."
What is your idea of karma? Because you have 5 different ideas of what you think karma is and it really is annoying.

So ok then, fine: lets say your actual idea of it (and what it actually is) is for familiarity, ok, but then why do we have karma on profiles? It promotes a bullying mentality that doesn't make sense. "This user has bad opinions and is therefore shit" how is this helpful? Does it make us want to avoid the user? Hate them? If then why? It just seems like a system for superioty ala "i have more karma so i'm the better user!". Why can't we just judge them on their opinions and ideas rather than their online meme points? This system isn't on other sites accept reddit and its already a shit system on reddit.

And why does burying exist? For spam and off topic/insensitive posts yes, but what about just opinions you don't like? Why do those get buried? People are gonna reply to them anyways to keep discussion up and that will most likeley have people quote the post so theres no real point. Why not have a report system that lets people report posts that are off topic and insensitive? If enough reports (say 10) build up the post automatically gets removed. The number of reports needs to be high to actually warrant a delete so abuse isn't that easy to do but it could be much better than having burying.

I'm all for the +funny +Not Funny and +like +dislike if we could get rid of/change burying and get rid of the pointless karma on profile thing and also get rid of this "karma shapes users to being good users" mentality.

Bruh please learn to blockquote and paragraph a bit better your posts are a disaster to read.

It takes five minutes to write a post

During the largest part of the day, I only have my phone to post, so I'm not gonna make a longpost then. And then when I finally get home, replying to this guy on the internet isn't my highest priority I hope you understand.

And my post took me a solid 20 minutes, i don't type that shit in 5 min cus I proofread.

Even if the karma system is meant to be for familiarity and to be like other sites you treat it like its a system for behavior:
“No. The karma system is in place to reward folks for good contributions and make them think twice before bad contributions, and it works. If people wonder why they got bad karma, they know they did a dumb, and thus the system works. It keeps folks in control, and shows them an easy way to adapt their posts to how they’re received.”
“Karma exists to shape users into better posters. Let them know what they did right and what they shoudn’t do again.”
But then you say things like this:
“Karma is a subjective system, but you’re treating it like it can be used objectively wrong.”
What is your idea of karma? Because you have 5 different ideas of what you think karma is and it really is annoying.

I don't see how it's difficult to combine those ideas.

People distribute their votes subjectively, because what one person finds good quality and what another doesn't, or what one finds funny and other doesn't, differs per person. That much should make perfect sense. That is how it's from the voter.

Better posts have more people subjectively find them funny or of good quality, and thus will subjectively result in more karma. This makes the karma a good indicator of how the post was received by the community. It shows how much people liked or disliked the posts based on the score, or if it was just average if it got no score.

If it's a good post, the poster gets rewarded, and vice versa. And based on that, the user can adapt themselves.

I could argue if karma was handed out objectively, it would only promote circlejerking even more, because then there actually is a frigging guide on what should be upvoted.

but then why do we have karma on profiles? It promotes a bullying mentality that doesn’t make sense. “This user has bad opinions and is therefore shit” how is this helpful? Does it make us want to avoid the user? Hate them? If then why? It just seems like a system for superioty ala “i have more karma so i’m the better user!”. Why can’t we just judge them on their opinions and ideas rather than their online meme points?

How do karma stats on a profile promote a bullying mentality? 90% of our average users have a big ass positive score. The only ones stuck with the negatives are commonly the folks actually aiming for it. And when folks bully with karma, the aim is usually burrying single posts, because affecting the number on the wall is too much of a gauntlet.

Do people actually get avoided or hated due to their overal karma score? Do people find me the best user on the entire site because I got nearly 40k karma? Name 5 examples of users bullied over karma, and outlier Wyn doesn't count.

Why not have a report system that lets people report posts that are off topic and insensitive? If enough reports (say 10) build up the post automatically gets removed. The number of reports needs to be high to actually warrant a delete so abuse isn’t that easy to do but it could be much better than having burying.

That would achieve the polar opposite of what we want.

So you make a dumb? Let it sit long enough, and it'll get auto-deleted, and you no longer have to live up to it.

Let people think before they post. If unpopular posts get auto-deleted, there is absolutely no consequence to making bad posts. Hell, how would an auto-delete system not promote the biggest circlejerk in the history of the site? Anything that doesn't go with what people want to see can get auto-deleted with enough group effort.

Even now mods next-to-never delete posts, unless it breaks rules like the porn rules, and even then we tend to edit the post and include a warning to make a public example out of it.

Absolutely god awful idea.

I’m all for the +funny +Not Funny and +like +dislike if we could get rid of/change burying and get rid of the pointless karma on profile thing and also get rid of this “karma shapes users to being good users” mentality.

The karma system is literally the same except you can then judge a post on 2 factors instead of the current 1, so the effect would also remain literally the same. It still does what I believe it should, the shaping, and even makes it easier because it becomes clearer to people where they did a right or wrong. Wake up.

I Think A Confirmation Pop-Up When Downvoting On The Forums (Like On Comments) Would Be Nice.