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^
You are one to talk, being a dirty Tsugumi peasant. Onodera master race checking in.

no i mean the new rebuild movies, does it make more sense to watch them immediately after the 'old' evangelion or is that irrelevant.
i've heard some funny theories about rebuild not being a remake but a direct sequel o0

>Onodera master race
>Onodera

Besides, everyone knows that Kosaki's sister is far more kawaii than her.

It doesn't really matter. They are pretty good I guess, though the third one is honestly pretty bad.

@loli

You mad bro? You mad that Onodera always tops the poularity polls? Fact is that she is the best girl and I would appreciate it if you wouldn't suggest otherwise.

I whole heartedly agree with you on the Rebuild movies thus far. Here's my very long and much needed rant on the issue as a whole; bare with me.

As an Evangelion fan, I must say that I was rather very disappointed with the last 5 or so episodes of the series (around where Shinji's eva goes berserk and eats the 10th angel) with the animation, story, and characters all going down the drain (with some areas I still kind of liked; Kaworu in particular). I'm not kidding when I say that they honestly destroyed the potential of what could have been an awesome series by taking out the interesting, thought provoking aspects and elements and replacing them with "Anno's therapy time"; as well as perhaps the most slap in the face, pseudo-psychological, B.S ending (that also fails to wrap up any of the lose ends whatsoever) to a show, that I have ever seen. I'm being dead serious when I say that NGE's original ending holds the all time record for the fastest any show has completely imploded in on itself; and in a hilarious fashion no less. I'd honestly recommend it for that reason; it's something that needs to be seen to be believed.

On the topic of endings…"End of Evangelion". Unless I want to write a novel here, I'm gonna keep this short. Was it better than the original ending?: Oh hell yes. Did it save the series and redeem everything that happened before?: Are you HIGH? Were all unanswered questions and lose threads resol-: …Get out.

Then along came the first of the "Rebuilds", "Evangelion 1.11"; what many expected to be Anno desperately trying to "fix" his now infamous series…and oh boy did he. Not only was the animation great, but everything was better than it had been in the original series, even while it was still "good". It didn't stop there, though the story was basically the same, there were key changes that told that it wasn't simply going to be the same NGE story animated all over again.
This trend continued into the characters; while at a glance they appear to be no different than their original counterparts, subtle differences indicated that they may not develop to where they were at the end of NGE. This was gearing up to be something different.

When "Rebuild: Evangelion 2.22" came out, these assumptions were proven true. Not only did 2.22 continue the trends of 1.11, but it took them to the next level. Further developing the characters differently than before (and adding some new ones; Mari), changes in story (some outright massive ones at that) and while doing a tremendous job of using both of those things to hint at what was over the horizon and mystify what that horizon was going to be. By the end, this accumulated into a game changing rush of of all these things coming together head on; leaving what was going to happen and how it was going to happen up in the air. However, one of the most important things, if not the most, that Rebuild had done over 1.11 and 2.22, was the different tone it gave off opposed to NGE; it felt…hopeful. The subtle changes in characters (which I grew to care and enjoy far more than the originals) gave off the sense that they would not suffer the same fate as they had before – sliding into depression- and act in ways that were both far more interesting and constructive; and the story seemed to veer in the direction that not all was going to be lost.

All of this combined is what made me love Rebuild far more than NGE ever came close too. There was hope, the characters were far more enjoyable, the plot was different in ways that made me question what was next, and the story was more immersive and enjoyable because of that. The original by comparison seemed to become more and more of a bad memory; everything acclimating into depression, hopelessness, the characters either sliding into severe crippling depression or being consumed by their personal problems/disorders/conflicts until they shut themselves completely off from the world, for some, both. I was ecstatic and excited, Rebuild was doing everything I had hoped and more; all they had to do was not. Fuck. It. Up. …….

Then 3.0 came out.

I suppose I should laugh at the irony; 2.22 had ended after Unit 01 had gone berserk, right before the series went into significant decline. I'm not going to go into detail, but I'll explain why. Everything I had loved about 1.11 and 2.22, the characters, the different story, and the tone were dropped like a fucking sack of bricks wrapped in chains weighted by lead and tied to an anchor. Everything. Everything was gone. What 2.22 had left off on was apparently in another freaking dimension, the hints, the enjoyable characters, and the tone were all gone. Now keep in mind, the story was completely different, it was just that questions that had been brought up before: never even addressed, the characters and their enjoyability: erased. However, the tone was the final nail in the coffin; though everything was different, the tone (and Shinji) seemed to regress back to that of NGE: hopelessness and depression.

It gets me angry and upset even thinking about it now.

Anyone who watches Evangelion (or Rebuild) agree?

^
Yes, I completely agree. You praised the first two so much, and I share the same sentiments. They are beautifully animated and actually feel superior to the anime. The sum of all my dislike of the 3.0 comes from this one thing

…

Actually, I liked the third one.

Can someone tell me what anime this is?

I have no idea, but it looks a lot like

Which can only be a good thing.

The anime you seek Dac is My Teen Romantic Comedy SNAFU. It has a needlessly long name, but is actually pretty good. It is a very different Rom-com, and I really liked that the protagonist had an interesting personality, given that bland main characters are probably the genre's biggest plague. Hachiman (the protagonist) is sarcastic, apathetic, and a bit of an asshole at times. What I really like about him is how he deals with being a loner.

^
Thank you. Will start watching when I get home.
Who else loves Watamote?
Granted, its mean spirited in a way, but I cant help but laugh hysterically at her. Its really damn funny.

@Dac

Who else loves Watamote?
Granted, its mean spirited in a way, but I cant help but laugh hysterically at her. Its really damn funny.

I'm not going to lie, it's painful to watch but it gives me a good laugh. I still have to finish it. Too many animes and so little time.

Well, I think I'm going to watch "My Teen Romantic Comedy SNAFU" too. Romantic comedies are my weak point.

^
Oh yeah, an episode would take me 45 minutes to finish because I had to pause it multiple times to recover from the cringe.

Romantic comedies are my weak point.

One thing I forget to mention, while SNAFU isn't exactly a parody, it definitively pokes fun at a lot of the weird tropes and ideas found in a lot of Rom-coms. I particularly like how the show deals with the whole little sister thing that seems to pop up a lot these days.

So is a romantic comedy that makes fun of romantic comedies?

Okay you had my attention, now you have my interest.

I have been waiting long enough for an anime in where they mock about the "Onii-chan" complex.

Dac wrote:

Oh yeah, an episode would take me 45 minutes to finish because I had to pause it multiple times to recover from the cringe.

OMG LOL I thought I was the only one who did that.

>tfw someone understand your feel

Ahem, I believe you mean "/a/: The Anime"

Alright, so the series is has more or less started (I'm only waiting on Soul Eater NOT and Ping Pong now), so here's my list of first impressions, going from best to worst:
Mushishi – The best this season, but that's a given. Probably one of the only second seasons that can accurately bottle up all I loved about the original, and bring it back like it never left (and the original is nearly 10 years old). A masterpiece, truly original from anything else
Kawaisou/ The Kawai Complex Guide To Manors And Hostel Behavior – The biggest surprise for me. I'm usually not a fan of romances, but I found this one endearing, it's funny and the characters designs are beautiful. Check this one out
Captain Earth – Despite the fact that I have absolutely no idea what the hell is happening, I found this one quite enjoyable. And it's beautifully animated too
Baby Steps – It has a different feel from a lot of sports anime, and I find the characters to be quite enjoyable in their own right
One Week Friends- Slow, but pretty cute and nice looking. And you can tell this show is going to be a one way train to feelsville
Haikyuu – I honestly thought that I'd enjoy this one more than Baby Steps, but I didn't. I guess underdog stories are just starting to grate on me

As for the ones I flat out dropped:
Mahouka/An Irregular at Magic High School – Do you know what makes me the most sad about this one? That it's the one to watch for most popular show this season. this one and not, say, Mushishi. Sigh.

Mushishi, surprisingly, was the first anime I watched that wasn't on TV or before I realized that people viewed anime differently from Western cartoons. Kind of a strange gateway anime, eh? I did really enjoy it's episodic stories and supernatural world. Unfortunately, I still haven't finished the first season, because I watched it at a time when I had a bad habit of leaving shows I liked unfinished for whatever reason. I'm planning on watching the rest of season 1 this week and then watching the special episode that was released a few months ago and then begin the new season.

On topic of it's popularity, however, I can see why people may be less hyped for it than other shows. It is a very subtle, slow-paced and episodic show. While this makes for a very well done anime, it also doesn't have the ability to generate as much hype as other shows because it's a bit more niche. I do wish it was a bit more popular though.

Oh don't worry, I know full well why. In fact you'd be shocked about how much hype there was for Mushishi season 2, it is still a well loved series, if not the most popular. That comment was more in comparison to Mahouka, which is shit tier as far as I care (I can't even watch it ironically like Recently, My Sister is Unusual, it's just so fucking boring). Although in regard to you not finishing it, the episodic nature of Mushishi means that really you could pick up season 2 now and watch season 1 in-between (wouldn't watch the special until after season 1 though)

Saw the first episode of gokukoku no brynhildr. It's too early to say anything, but it was interesting and I do feel like watching more. I am intrigued to say the least.

I'm still surprised to see Mushishi be given a second season. I just never saw it as being popular enough to warrant it.

I think I'll give a pass on watching the new season, though. As beautiful as the show/manga was, I always found myself getting a little bored by it. Hmm. I wonder why it didn't grab me like other shows of the same nature might?

I started watching Witch Craft Works yesterday and Its actually pretty good. I watched 4 episodes straight. Its funny and the action is enjoyable. I'm glad I put it on my queue a while ago.

Question: which manga, Light novel, visual novel would you like to see get an anime adaption?

Personally, I would like Monster Musume to get one. The ecchi is strong with that one, but just like Recently My Sister Is Unusual, It isn't just boobs. Its actually pretty damn funny.

You know, I'm going to cheat a little with that question Dac, because for as much as it's classed as a video game, I still feel Ace Attorney is more of a visual novel. In that respect, and Ace Attorney anime would be awesome. Although, I feel the first games' story has been adapted into other media so many times I think it would be boring to watch again so oh well.
But anyway, now the season has kicked into gear (half the shows premiered over the weekend), what are you following, and what do you think of them? I gave my list earlier, and you can officially add The World Is Still Beautiful/Soredemo Sekai wa Utsukushii. It's reminded me that there aren't nearly enough medieval anime anymore (well, not good ones). This one is very good though, and I recommend it.

Got my dad to start watching Attack on Titan (first 2 episodes). He was a little more than surprised at the amount of gore at first; but he still thought it was awesome.

It's always cool to start a good show with someone who's never seen it before. You can gauge their reactions (knowing what's coming up next) and hold all the secrets from them no matter how much they beg to know.

Coincidence? I think not

^

Haha is funny because Araragi and Kanbaru are lolicons

Tsundere is best dere.

It seems a lot of anime likes to do Gaijin 4koma parodies. I caught one in Recently, My Sister is Unusual

^
I didn't catch that. Which episode?

Headless girl is now joining the Monster Musume Harem. They are just nailing all my Fetishes.
srs

^ Headless Girl?! Oh hell yeah!
I will admit I do really like Monster Musume. Even though at a glance it's your "typical harem manga" with over the top fanservice", the fact that they kind of make fun of themselves in that regard in addition to both giving all the girls actual personalities (as opposed to your typical cardboard cutouts) and being quite funny, is quite honestly what makes it stand out from the crowd.

That, and the fact that they're monster girls too :3

Also, found this.

12/10 WOULD IMPACT AGAIN.

3DEEP01U

EVANGELION 4.WATERMELON: YOU WILL NOT (HONK) UNDERSTAND

^
Yeah, I really have to give to the writer. Monster Musume has more tits than you can shake a stick at, but it actually has a good amount of humor and characterization. It's one of my favorites at the moment. The new girl is pretty good so far by the way. It's pretty darn cute when she loses her head and she's just a helpless body.

I watched that entire video, 10/10 would watch again.

@Dac
Episode 7 I believe

@thegreato
Honkgelion is be gelion. That song has been the official theme song to my life since last year.

I'm still semi-planning to watch the Evangelion remake, but is it really as big a mindfuck as people claim it? Of course not taking the "CONGRATULATIONS!" into account here.

Nothing could be as big of a mindfuck as The End of Evangelion, or even the end of the original TV series.

Speaking of mindfucking mecha, I started watching RahXephon recently. They really don't mess around with the trippiness… someone told the mindfuckery in that series is kind of frontloaded; is that true?

@randomman

The End of Evangelion is the mindfuck. Rebuild of Evangelion isn't so much.

Read my opinions on Rebuild (just up a bit on the page) and decide for yourself.

On the note of Rebuild, I was skimming through the Eva Geeks forums, and they really really love 3.33. Reasons that I've seen include it returning to the tone of the original show, showing consequences for Shinji's actions so as to show the audience who cheered for him that they were wrong, better connection to Shinji due to being left in the dark like he is, continue to up the drama and angst, more Asuka screentime, and the themes and symbolism that Anno is telling.

Basically, they feel that if you disliked it, you simply aren't able to understand what it is trying to do, which is subvert expectations and be a mirror to ourselves. To them, it is a work of art, and it causing emotional reactions is proof that it did its job.

One person even compared it to Spec Ops The Line, saying it being a subversion of what we expected makes it so much better as a result.

^

Returning to the tone of the original show is fine. Showing that Shinjis "heroic" actions backfired is fine. What isn't fine is how contrived it is. There was absolutely no reason to leave Shinji in the dark like they did. It was only done to give Shinji a reason to go with Rei. Had they told him 2 simple things regarding Rei and the Eva, nothing that happened would have happened. Also, the whole EVA pilots being unable to age is just a contrived explanation for why they look the same. The movie is beautifully animated eye candy and you could certainly watch worse, but it is pretty lousy in the story telling department and many critics have said the same thing. Those guys at Eva geeks that are trying to act like it is simply 2deep4u are grasping for straws.
Madoka is the superior genre deconstruction!

showing consequences for Shinji’s actions so as to show the audience who cheered for him that they were wrong

Since I brought it up, Madoka pulls this off much better with Homura and Kyoko.

Indeed. Heck, I feel that Madoka Rebellion is everything that 3.33 tried and failed to be.

That said, the folks at Eva Geeks say that WILLE weren't able to give Shinji the memo because they were rather busy with those attacks. Not to mention that when they were about to, Rei Q showed up. They believe that WILLE was going to tell him, they just had to deal with other things. Also, they claim that the bomb collar was a safety precaution, as they may not have even known if Shinji was still human or not.

As for them not aging, well they justify it by saying that it is to show the tragedy of the pilots situation. Basically that they are forever cursed to live as 14 year olds, unable to mature or make adult relationships. The Curse of Eva as it is called. So there's that.

The original EVA and EoE will always be better than the rebuilds, and they will always be better than Madoka. EVA took the Super Robot genre and completely gutted it and turned it inside out. Instead of displaying a world offering escape from your fears and insecurities, where you are defended by an unstoppable hot-blooded hero, Anno crafts a world of terror where your fears and insecurities physically assault you. It was a big middle finger to otaku everywhere… and yet the otaku ate it up. Madoka takes a magical world where purity and goodness conquer evil and ramps up the evil until the evil almost crushes that purity and goodness… but the evil never succeeds, unlike in EVA, where the heroic passion is dashed before the show even starts.

In the end Madoka is just Akiyuki Shinbo going all Tomino on a bunch of middle school girls' asses. It's a good deconstruction of the magical girl genre, but it doesn't shit all over everything otaku hold dear the way EVA did. The rebuilds don't get the message across in the same way because first of all, it doesn't have the element of surprise, and second of all, Anno feels like he is deliberately pulling his punches. The rebuilds don't have that backhanded insult to otaku culture that gave EVA its edge, and Madoka definitely doesn't have that.

I was never really comfortable comparing Madoka to EVA… it feels like they accomplish similar things in very different ways, and it feels like EVA, on the whole, accomplishes more.

^

l world where purity and goodness conquer evil and ramps up the evil until the evil almost crushes that purity and goodness… but the evil never succeeds

Someone hasn't seen rebellion….
Put simply, I completely disagree with you on Eva being superior to Madoka, but that's just my opinion. I think EVA is for the most part pretty good, but is too pretentious for its own good. It is undeniable that Evangelion accomplished more, but that's obvoius considering when the two came out. When Madoka came out, Eva had existed for more than a decade already. Everything aside, Madoka tells a complete story while evagelion starts out like it has a story to tell, but falters out towards the end. It's bogged down with to much faux symbolism and the illusion of depth, when its really the angst of a depressed man showing through his work. Madoka on the other hand draws inperation from literature like Faust and Paradise Lost and uses this to great effective while the symbolism present is more than just for show. You can see it as Anno shitting on everything Otakus hold dear, and that was probably his intention, but that's no excuse for some serious flaws in its story telling. Also, the art direction and music behind Madoka is excellent, though I won't hold that against Evangelion. I think JesuOtakus review on the series is spot on and her 3/5 star review sounds just about right.

That's the thing I noticed about Anno. He has amazing themes and allusions in his works, but when it comes to delivering them, subtlety is not in his vocabulary. More than often, he tends to make the themes drive the story and characters, as opposed to the former flowing from the latter two's actions and natural progression. Basically, the same problem that plagued the last two Matrix movies. This is most apparent in 3.33, which is surprising considering how well done and natural they were used in 2.22. Guess he thought that the viewers were morons and wanted to hammer home the themes into their heads.

I don't get that feeling from Madoka. There the themes are sitting comfortably in the background, unveiled through the story and the character's actions and reactions. It also trusts the viewers much more, and allows them to come up with their own interpretations. Basically, it has a lot more faith in the intelligence of the viewer.

Themes mean nothing if they are allowed to overtake the entire story. They, imo, need to be the icing on the cake, not the other way around. After all, the story is the base of the entire series, and without that, the whole thing collapses in on itself.

All this talk of themes and shit and I'm just sitting here enjoying it when the giant piloted cyborgs punch the giant monsters.
I don't really need much else from a show.
Also, if you guys like Eva, you really need to watch Gunbuster. It's essentially the 80s equivilant and 'deconstructs' mecha just as well. And we all know nerds love 'deconstruction', whatever the hell it means.
It also had the same director, so.

Addendum I forgot about: I actually prefer the Rebuild films to the original series because they cut out a lot of the bullshit in favour of more action and (relevant) character focus.
That's also why I prefer the Zeta Gundam films to the actual Zeta Gundam series. They get to the point.

Everybody talks about how EVA has so much faux symbolism, but what a lot of people don't realize is that the Abrahamic imagery in EVA was never meant to come across as symbolism in the first place. All it was was window dressing. It was to make the series stand out from its peers in the 1990's. Christianity is viewed differently in Japanese culture. To them it's a lot more enigmatic and mysterious, not unlike Buddhism is in the west. How is EVA using faux-Christian themes all that different from western media using faux-Buddhist themes in the same way?

Also, we have to remember that EVA's unsatisfactory ending was more a result of budget constraints than anything else. EoE wraps things up quite nicely if you can look past the trippiness. It's a great conclusion to the series because it shows the nadir of Shinji's depression.

One thing that I disliked about Madoka was its characters. They felt sort of bland, you know? Yeah, sure, everybody got significant character development throughout the show, but their who they were and who they turned into seemed a bit cliched. Madoka is the sweet and innocent girl broken by the cruelty of the world. Homura is the aloof stoic who ultimately reveals a soft side. EVA's characters felt fresh and new. I mean seriously, did we expect Asuka to end up having literal bipolar disorder? No, we didn't. We thought she was just a regular tsundere.

Madoka tries to gut the magical girl genre, and ultimately succeeds in doing so, but it doesn't have the edge that EVA did because it doesn't mess with the archetypes the way EVA does. Madoka may have turned what would have been a story about mercy and hope into story about brutality and despair by tweaking the setting. EVA turned what would have been a story about courage and tenacity into one about cowardice and irresolution by tweaking the characters.

EVA is a travesty of everything that its genre stood for. It was the opposite of what the otaku of the day thought they wanted. The otaku asked for a fish, and Anno gave them a snake. And yet the otaku treated the snake like a fish. They loved EVA, even though it was basically a massive, elaborate obscene gesture in their general direction. EVA's brilliance stems from that. Madoka can't boast that.

You might say that EVA is just the product of Anno's midlife crisis; that it's just one big blob of Anno's angst. And in many ways, you'd be right. But the brilliance of it is the fact that it was able to package that angst into a form that was appealing to the otaku of the day. I'm tired of people complaining about how EVA is pretentious 2deep4u bullshit. The illusion of pretension comes from its Judeo-Christian backdrop. That stuff isn't trying to pass itself off as artistic depth; it's just trying to get your attention.

I think EVA is a lot more open-ended than you're giving it credit for.

All that aside, is it bad for a theme to be the driving force behind a narrative? Is it wrong for a work to be built around a message? Is a story worse for trying to get a message across? Is allowing the viewers to come up with their own interpretations respecting their intelligence, or merely their ability to make stuff up?

I rather not dwell too long on this, but a couple things I would like to say.

Also, we have to remember that EVA’s unsatisfactory ending was more a result of budget constraints than anything else. EoE wraps things up quite nicely if you can look past the trippiness. It’s a great conclusion to the series because it shows the nadir of Shinji’s depression.

Madoka is the sweet and innocent girl broken by the cruelty of the world. Homura is the aloof stoic who ultimately reveals a soft side.

That's a gross over simplification of Homura's character. She is much more than just the "stoic character with a soft side". Thats like saying Shinji is just a whiny bitch.

The illusion of pretension comes from its Judeo-Christian backdrop. That stuff isn’t trying to pass itself off as artistic depth; it’s just trying to get your attention.

Nope, the Christian symbolism isn't what I find pretentious, what I find pretentious is the constant ventures into the characters minds that lack Subtlety and instead hammer in to our head that "hey, these guys a fucked up".

EVA is a travesty of everything that its genre stood for. It was the opposite of what the otaku of the day thought they wanted. The otaku asked for a fish, and Anno gave them a snake. And yet the otaku treated the snake like a fish. They loved EVA, even though it was basically a massive, elaborate obscene gesture in their general direction. EVA’s brilliance stems from that. Madoka can’t boast that.

You are right, Madoka cant boast that, and frankly I'm glad that is the case. EVA brilliance in my opinion was when it was about Angels vs Evas. We had a great balance of action and Drama that really engrossed me and I'm sure most people, but once it got further along it began to falter and loose direction. You can call that an "elaborate obscene gesture in [Otakus] general direction" and claim it as brilliance, but I can't say I feel the same.

Ultimately, I do really like both series, just that I wouldn't put EVA in my top 5 while Madoka is easily in my top 3.

Pretty much everything she says I can agree with.

Lightdragon

That said, the folks at Eva Geeks say that WILLE weren’t able to give Shinji the memo because they were rather busy with those attacks.

oh boy, a discussion about which anime is better,
and it involves evangelion!

dis gon be gud

also, was it the fansubs or does jotaro really call his mother a bitch all the time?

Accurate representation of what will happen If this discussion continues…

this is brilliant

I haven't seen either Evangelion or Madoka, so this is one debate I can't be a part of. Although nice JesuOtaku video Dac, always love her videos.
On another note, I've seen all the shows I was planning to watch. Ping Pong was nice, although I won't lie, I don't like the style of it. I'm pretty sure I can get over it. Soul Eater NOT however, has given me the ability to finally be able to take part in best girl conversations. This show is super cool, even if the new character designs to old Soul Eater characters are very ehhhh.

Random21 wrote:

I haven’t seen either Evangelion or Madoka

Get rid of your title of "anime anthropologist" you god damn poser!

If my memory serves me right he is, (Jotaro); but he doesn't mean it. That becomes apparent after

NUMBER ONE OF ALL TIME, COME AT ME BRO!

Just joking there a bit, anyone else agree?

(and before you spin your heads off I'll say this: One Piece is my favorite Manga of all time, however in terms of straight up anime, Gurren Lagann takes the cake….and the whole goddamn bakery with it.)