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User requested a place where people could reply to the current situation, so here's a thread.

Again, I'm pointing out that the lock is temporary. How long it'll remain locked we're still talking about amongst the mods, but it won't be longer than a week at its worst.

The galleries are locked to prevent abuse of those areas in reply to the current events as we figure out what's best to do next. They'll probably get unlocked earlier, no worries there.

What happens if something big GamerGate-related happens?

Also, how to keep anti-GamerGate people to abuse this system from keeping GamerGate entry locked by spamming it with less.relevant messages?

Plus, I wanted to post this

I would like to say (even though 75% of forums knows this) That the GG comments and dis tr are horribly off topic and horribly unwelcoming, they make fun of topics they don't like without diving into them. many of the comments and images are in the wrong places and galleries for the sake of familiarity. Sometimes the even blatantly advertise their favorite music/video games and wish each other well for holidays which provides no insight or anything on GG. All in all it shouldn't stay dead forever but it needs reworking or new rules or something because its getting out of hand with this crisis.. Tehdoh truthfully went in to destroy the comments and keep it dead forever and thats messed up

What happens if something big GamerGate-related happens?

You can edit the entry if needed. The comments and galleries will remain locked until further notice.

how to keep anti-GamerGate people to abuse this system from keeping GamerGate entry locked by spamming it with less.relevant messages?

As you can see, Doh was suspended for spamming the comment section. We are not going to "shutdown" the whole entry because a few butthurt guys wants it locked.

Trolls and the like will be suspended and/or warned if they break the rules. Of course, it would be a great help if you guys report them to us so we can act quicker.

Would you be willing to give a ETA on the unlock?

User requested a place where people could reply to the current situation, so here’s a thread.

Thank you.

Again, I’m pointing out that the lock is temporary. How long it’ll remain locked we’re still talking about amongst the mods, but it won’t be longer than a week at its worst.

OK, just for notice a full week will probably cause issues.

The galleries are locked to prevent abuse of those areas in reply to the current events as we figure out what’s best to do next. They’ll probably get unlocked earlier, no worries there.

Question, how do we prevent abuse of this?

Because some people will try to spam the comment section to get it shut down permanently.

Edit: Never mind Loli answered.

Would you be willing to give a ETA on the unlock?

See OP. Likely at the latest a week, at the bare minimum tomorrow since the admins come back into work. Probably somewhere in between.

OK, just for notice a full week will probably cause issues.

No offense, but that's not really our problem . You have several other sites for communication, and as was originally mentioned the comments on the article are barely passable under the rules and frankly go off-topic consistently. It's not a forum, you know. Beside that, the situation yesterday escalated to a ridiculous high and there needs to be a cooldown. We may need some time to lay out a more specific framework for comment section etiquette.

Question, how do we prevent abuse of this?
Because some people will try to spam the comment section to get it shut down permanently.

Read Loli's post. Breaking the rules comes with consequences, you aren't forced to handle it all on your lonesome.

How big we talking? If it's something big enough that KYM should document it within its entries, there is a forum thread which is also linked towards in the top of the entry.

If it's minor "big" happenings, honestly it's not our concern. Instead use that as motivation to make certain the comments don't get locked. Why risk having the comments locked when that could be right as you really need them open?

Anti-GG depends on how they comment. If they comment about GG, it's related enough and won't result in consequences. If they're posting off-topic then the individuals will punished without consequences for the comment section itself.

No offense, but that’s not really our problem . You have several other sites for communication, and as was originally mentioned the comments on the article are barely passable under the rules and frankly go off-topic consistently. It’s not a forum, you know. Beside that, the situation yesterday escalated to a ridiculous high and there needs to be a cooldown. We may need some time to lay out a more specific framework for comment section etiquette.

OK, I meant that cause issues for KYM.

Because this is by far the most busy page on the site, and I don't want you to lose a bunch of hits if people move on.

Plus there's about 150,000 in GamerGate and we are very vocal, I don't want any rumors going around that KYM is censoring the article or anything like that, because that would be bad for everyone involved.

Wouldn't it be possible to save whatever was to be posted in the form of an image file, and wait for the gallery to be unlocked to post it then?

@RealLibertarian, any bad word of mouth from this incident has already taken place. No doubt the condemnations via twitter and reddit are already being penned as we speak. People will be moving off site regardless.

With that in mind, patience is probably the best course of action to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen a second time.

Assuming GG is the most hit page on the site (and I'm not sure that that's true anyways, seems like a statistic you made up), the only reason it is is because y'all F5 it all day. And the site isn't doing this for hits anyways, you know.

As for censorship, we're not censoring anything. It's about what we allow in the rules, which GG completely bypassed. The opinion of GG doesn't really factor into how the site is run, or will be in the future. And let's be real man a week is really inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

I would like to put in an apology on my own behalf in engaging with TehDoh. I should have thought about it and just reported him for spamming. Good on the mods for taking charge at this point. Thanks for that.

Because this is by far the most busy page on the site, and I don’t want you to lose a bunch of hits if people move on.

No offense, but we can live without the views we get from the gamergate people. I think we can survive if everyone moves somewhere else. It's not like we are losing half of the site's views.

Of course, it doesn't mean we want them gone.

Plus there’s about 150,000 in GamerGate and we are very vocal, I don’t want any rumors going around that KYM is censoring the article or anything like that, because that would be bad for everyone involved.

I saw some GG related threads on the web and some people understand that as long the page isn't "touched" then it's fine.

Personally, I couldn't care less about what a bunch of guys on the internet thinks. We don't censor opinions, we only act based on our guidelines. We're going to keep documenting intenet phenomena anyways.

Plus there’s about 150,000 in GamerGate and we are very vocal, I don’t want any rumors going around that KYM is censoring the article or anything like that, because that would be bad for everyone involved.

So far people appear pretty understanding and accept it's a temporary lock. Sure, people make un of it, but that was to be expected. Once the comments are unlocked it's entirely up to the commenters what happens to it. Stay on topic, and there will be no risks.

We're trying to type up some stuff on the conditions that can result in locks so that we at least have that case covered better.

Twilitlord:

Assuming GG is the most hit page on the site (and I’m not sure that that’s true anyways, seems like a statistic you made up), the only reason it is is because y’all F5 it all day. And the site isn’t doing this for hits anyways, you know.

Most of the people on the page work on other pages too, it's a big gateway to the rest of the site.

Yeah, but less hits = less ad revenue = harder to keep the severs running, to pay for upgrades to the site, and to pay for anything else necessary.

You aren't doing it for the cash, but you need cash to the site running.

As for censorship, we’re not censoring anything. It’s about what we allow in the rules, which GG completely bypassed. The opinion of GG doesn’t really factor into how the site is run, or will be in the future. And let’s be real man a week is really inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

It doesn't really matter what happened, what matters is what people think happened.

It's why "trial by media" is a thing and why appearance of impropriety is as bad as actual impropriety in business.

Also "the rules" are very ambiguous here, I don't know the rules are for comment sections. I doubt most people on this site do.

Loli:

No offense, but we can live without the views we get from the gamergate people. I think we can survive if everyone moves somewhere else. It’s not like we are losing half of the site’s views.

Of course, it doesn’t mean we want them gone.

I'd just like to reminder you how many people the GamerGate article has both now and in the past and how active they are. Add-in how this topic has been censored across the internet (4chan will let literal, meets-the-legal-definition-of child porn stay up for days while anything about GamerGate that isn't a circle-jerk of hate is nuked within a few hours at most).

Well, if this site started a purge then most of them would flee to avoid banning. Not all of them, but a lot of them.

That's always how sites die, do something to drive away some of the most productive people and then the rest of the productive people start leaving, then the less productive, then the more casual audience, then the people who occasionally came until the site is an empty shell.

Happened to Something Awful, happened to Digg, happening to 4chan, has started happening to Reddit, I don't want it to happen here.

I saw some GG related threads on the web and some people understand that as long the page isn’t “touched” then it’s fine.

Good, that's a load off my mind.

Personally, I couldn’t care less about what a bunch of guys on the internet thinks. We don’t censor opinions, we only act based on our guidelines. We’re going to keep documenting intenet phenomena anyways.

If those "bunch of guys on the internet" keep talking about something as if it's bad and that opinion filters out into the internet at large, then that would become "common knowledge" and that's very hard to change.

Remember, GamerGate knows that all too well.

A Real Libertarian wrote:

Yeah, but less hits = less ad revenue = harder to keep the severs running, to pay for upgrades to the site, and to pay for anything else necessary.
You aren’t doing it for the cash, but you need cash to the site running.

The only thing that is happening is a temporarily lock of few things for blatantly breaking the rules. Your response comes off as trying the hold the site hostage. Yeah… that really just makes us want to keep the locks longer with this kind of attitude (don't worry it's not going to happen). If further action is merited will depend on further actions by the users in the comments. Hopefully this incident will make such future action unnecessary.

A Real Libertarian wrote:

Also “the rules” are very ambiguous here, I don’t know the rules are for comment sections. I doubt most people on this site do.

This is why the lock is temporary, so these rules are more clear to people.

A Real Libertarian wrote:

That’s always how sites die, do something to drive away some of the most productive people and then the rest of the productive people start leaving, then the less productive, then the more casual audience, then the people who occasionally came until the site is an empty shell.

Yeah see, that seems to suggest that GG people are the most productive people on the site. While some individual users have at some point identified as GG do/ have done good work, they are in the minority. Many people only comment on the GG page, or upload images to GG and do little to nothing elsewhere on the site. If you want us to think you are productive, diversify what you do. There's no consequence if you do or don't, (by all means, do what you want, within rules) but don't act like you are the most productive users on the site when most of your activity is focused on a single entry.

Also, we have no plans on banning user because they support GamerGate. We might ban users after multiple warnings and suspensions for ignoring rules. This would include if they broke rules while on the GG page. Still, that's nothing out of the ordinary.

The rules for the comments section are the universal site rules. Among others, "Keep it Relevant," "No flooding or spamming" (this was taken care of), and "Be Friendly". These were all abused on the first page of comments. And yes, they're easily accessible – they're right at the top of the page, above your username.

As was mentioned, some comment specific rules may be ironed out in coming days.

P.S. Stop with the thinly veiled threats, man. They're hard to believe and they make your arguments tenuous. No amount of "Gamergate will RUIN the site" will keep us from upholding the site's personal ethics code over accomodating a minority group.

Me thinks Libertarian is taking things a bit too seriously. Like it's a maximum week long lock that probably won't happen again since you guys now know what to do. And if some people leave it will have little to no bearing on the site you guys overestimate your presence, just because it means a lot to you and is one of the major reasons you use kym doesn't mean it's actually important. Like I think Loli said above most of the hits is just the same people refreshing. There are articles with many many more views and kym has many other reasons for people to come. Like Reddit and 4chan aren't going to die because GG left same with kym even though it's a much smaller site. You're not the heart and soul of these sites they ran fine before GG and if it leaves they sill continue to run mostly the same. GG is one article that remains very closed off and doesn't have much spill-over to the rest of the site other than some threads making fun of it.

Don't act like it means so much when it doesn't you talk almost like you're making threats and you're some kind kf mastermind with an army that could destroy the site at any second. Any day now the lock will be repealed and you can discuss news to your hearts' desires don't go looking for fights where there are none the mods legitimately just don't care. Fix your attitude or get out of this thread you hold no bearing on the mods' decisions.

"That’s always how sites die, do something to drive away some of the most productive people and then the rest of the productive people start leaving, then the less productive, then the more casual audience, then the people who occasionally came until the site is an empty shell."

You fail to see that most people on this site before GG showed up didn't care. And now many of those people who were here before feel that GG has overstayed its welcome. So they wouldn't care if that did happen. Not that the mods will do it unless they see reason to.

"It doesn’t really matter what happened, what matters is what people think happened."

"If those “bunch of guys on the internet” keep talking about something as if it’s bad and that opinion filters out into the internet at large, then that would become “common knowledge” and that’s very hard to change."

No, you're not hearing us. We don't care, at all.

horribly unwelcoming, they make fun of topics they don’t like without diving into them.

Riff Raff and the IRC.

many of the comments and images are in the wrong places and galleries for the sake of familiarity.

Definitely not worse than the situation with tumblr or Cringeworthy.

Sometimes the even blatantly advertise their favorite music/video games and wish each other well for holidays which provides no insight or anything on GG

Same as every entry on our current trending bar.

Loli covered most of what is important.

@Real Libertarian

Believe it or not, while the GG entry is popular, it does little to account for the total number of visits KYM gets.

@Bob
That still justifies nothing, just because others do it doesn't mean they get a free ride, Tumblr is about to get locked and Cringeworthy IS locked because of this.
Just because Riff Raff and IRC does it doesn't mean anything, they aren't supposed to be taken seriously, this is.

@A Real Libertarian ~

In all honestly, perhaps we should just let KYM "die".
*Not the site itself, but the way us GGers frequent it.

From the offset, the mods and many aGGros/Neutrals have been upset that GG keeps trending on the site. They've shown disdain at the fact that we use the comments section as a "hub" for talking about all things even remotely related to GG, SJWs, the gaming industry and nerd culture.

On one hand, I think there's nothing wrong with us talking about that stuff in the comments section (so long as we keep it there and do not try to spam the actual galleries). As it keeps us happy, because we get to talk about/share recent news/events and it helps KYM stay relevant (even if only, just a little).

On the other hand, Gamergate isn't really a "Meme".. it's a living thing, that keeps on evolving and KYM (along with its mods and typical user base) isn't really accommodating to that sort of thing.

IE: Most KYM articles seem to have an "origin story" with only a few updates over the years, where most people come to post their "reactions" in the comments section, then leave that meme to look for something else to "react" to.

When thinking about it that way, in some sense, KYM isn't really "worth" our time.

IE: We could be talking about this stuff on "KotakuInAction" which is much more accommodating to "constant updates/news flow".

We've even got TopHat2 (the mod that wanted to restrict GG to "ethics only") stepping down.

#FoodForThought.

~

@Slutty Sam.

As someone thats been here since the beginning and recently took a few days off from KYM to catch up on some work, only to come back to the comments section being locked because TehDoh decided to troll KYM.

I can honestly say that if anyone is "taking things a bit too seriously".. it's the mods that over reacted by locking things up and continuing to downplay GG in this very thread.

It's the same dismissive attitude we've been presented with since the beginning, including when we asked for updates to our article a few months ago and the mods not only ignored us, they turned around and acted like we were the bad guys.

IE: Stating that we were "attacking" them, for no reason.

Which is funny, when you think about it.

1. When we first noticed that the article wasn't being updated, a few people offered to become an editor to ensure it stayed up todate, where-in Ms Fortune actually got accepted.

2. We presented this little fact to the mods (that were "offended" and trying to preach to us about KYM rules and regulations in the comments section), showing that they were infact "informed" at the very least, that the article wasn't up to par.

At which point, they pretended her getting "approved" for editorship didn't mean she or anyone else notified the mods (over the last 3 months) that the article should be updated.

IE: They performed mental gymnastics, to maintain their "narrative" that no one let them know the article needed to be updated, even downplaying the new editor they just "hired" a few weeks prior.

3. For Gamergate to continue trending, that would mean that the comments section is always being updated with new posts. Thus with new "happenings".

That fact alone, implies that they should "pop in" occasionally to ask for summaries/links/references to be CONSIDERED, to be added to the article.

Yet they didn't, they waited until they thought they had a reason to "preach" to us, before committing any time to the comments section.

Compare that attitude to what's happening now and in this very thread.

Q!: Are the mods bad guys or corrupt?
A!: No, they just don't give a shit and will ignore things until they're "forced" (in their mind) to respond.

As for "The Libertarian" and his/her remarks, it looks like he/she just cares about this site more than most do and is worried that it will be "punished" by the fickle nature of the internet, due to the mods recent "knee jerk/dismissive" reaction.

Often times, people that care too much about something, will look like concern trolls.

#FoodForThough2

Riff Raff and the IRC.

>comparing to the shitpost areas that are riff-raff and the irc
>comparing a comment section to a board and chatroom in general

Definitely not worse than the situation with tumblr or Cringeworthy.

Cringeworthy is permanently locked. Are you promoting more permalocks here?

Same as every entry on our current trending bar.

>comparing an entry with over 60,000 comments to ones with a couple hundred at most

This just in: Quantity apparently does not matter.

Please stay on topic.

Evilthing, this is not the place.

Everyone else here, I'm not threatening this site.

All I'm doing is warning you that a lot of the most productive people here have worked on this article (it's been trending for almost a year & productive people by definition do a lot of work. Is it a surprise that there's a lot of overlap)?

And all that is secondary to the biggest problem, which is that what you do to the GamerGate article is now precedent for every other article.

You say "it's just a vocal minority", "there's very little overlap", "who cares about the new people's options?". That was all stuff Reddit said before the RedditRevolts, and look at much they've had to do to avoid going up in flames (tossing the CEO under the bus, groveling, backing off on the arbitrary censorship) and it's still up in the air whether they will recover.

Do you want to know what "army" I have to destroy this site with? (Seriously, why would anyone here want to destroy this site?)

It's everyone on this site that wonders whether contributing here is still fun.

And you can decide to take this as a threat all you want, but the truth is I can't do shit to this site, mods can.

And pretty much every site that's died like Digg & SA has been killed by mods & admins getting out of touch with the community.

How much of the people on this site are forum regulars? And how much of your opinion of what the sites community thinks is based on what the forum regulars think?

How many people here were surprised by the general tone of comments on the Lewis' Law article? Now why would you?

@Requiem

It wasn't tehdoh that caused the lock he was just a factor. It wasn't his attempt to screw the comments that upset the mods, it was the way everyone decided to focus the comments on him and going along with his trolling. Also, just generally people talking about the TPP, video games, their social lives, etc. No matter how much you feel it's a forum it is not. If you want a forum for random discussion talk on each other's walls, use the IRC channel, pms, but keep the comments to discussing gamergate as one of the big rules is to stay on topic.

I still see that you and Libertarian are taking things out of proportion. You're talking about leaving the site because it was locked for a few days, the entry will run smoothly before you know it, stop acting like this has more to it than there really is, and it's not your only place for discussion as I said above. You're trying to tell me Libertarian is just concerned? Stop pretending like GG is the heart of the site if you leave everything will continue except there will be no GG, you guys aren't even a majority of the hits or the userbase get out of your hole of isolation and smell the reality. The entry will be up and running in no time.

Oh, one more thing, I won't say much about the entry and its updates since I don't know too much about that, but there's a reason that article is handled so strictly. Imagine if it was treated like any other wiki or article on this site to where anybody who felt like adding something and is even moderately convincing could edit it, the article would be far far gone. It already takes like 2 minutes for the page to buffer and to scroll through all of it if you guys had your way and documented every single operation or tweet you felt was important the page would be its own database, not to mention an extremely messy one. You keep acting like gg is the reason the site is up and you have the right to call all the shots bt you guys are just one article and one group out of many. The site has a sort of "mission statement" to fulfill that works beyond what users want. Loli in particular loves to stress that the website will run by the rules and bu its purpose of documentation first if users like it or not. End of story, leave if you want, the article will be up soon, no one cares if you stay or not. Get off your high horse and stop acting like some kind of political figure.

I'll take this to your wall. No need to derail this thread further. Come on Bob, I even asked to stay on topic.

So where do I discuss GamerGate and its events then?

User walls or you can try making a thread in the General section of the forum. I'll link the thread in the comment section then if you wish so.

@Slutty Sam

By the looks of your reply, you either didn't read my entire post or simply didn't understand the words written.

Outside of your insults and high-horse "projection". Your reply, is basically suggesting the very things I posted about GG, KYM and their functions with-in the different communities.

IE: You agree with me, but want to still talk shit, as if you have any ground to stand on.

"it seems like you just didn't understand, looks like you agree with me"

Stellar debate skills pal, I don't even care the article is locked and will be opened like this week and everything will resume, people will leave, people will stay, KYM basically as a whole will not change. I'm not going to feed your delusions of grandeur that actually quite a few ggers I've talked to seem to have (not all of course just a noticeable amount). The mod decision won't change they're just upholding rules you can make vague threats and backpedal as much as you want nothing will change. It's almost funny at this point.

make a thread here

just click that ^

And if you guys wanted to do some sort of off-topic discussion for gamergaters you could probably make a thread in the "just for fun" section.

I'd call that running with your tail between your legs.

If you or Sam wish to continue the matter further, go to each other's walls.

Also here's a GG thread for those who need their daily dose of ethics.

Everyone knows the mods for knowyourmeme are anti-gamergate.

And?

Our opinions on gamergate doesn't change what you guys did. We act according to the rules, not on our "biased" opinions.

Twisty really doesn’t know how to keep his mouth shut about things that go on in moderator discussions for the site elsewhere. Ask twisty directly if he’s talked about gamergate, social justice warriors, knowyourmeme with anyone else and how much he’s told people.

Again, and? What's the problem with talking about the site somewhere else? ¿What's the point is saying "twisty did this and that on another site"?

Please calm down. Everyone here is trying to have a civil discussion, you're the only one here accusing us and our decisions of being anti-gg with no proof whatsoever outside of "the mods doesn't like GG".

I kindly ask you that if you're not going to add a meaningful post, please avoid posting. You're making it harder to have a clear and respectful conversation.

The mods haven't done any of that stuff because they don't want to shut people up, they want them to follow the rules.

If we wished to shut people up, why would we feel the need to create this thread so people can reply, or make the lock temporary and not permanent right away?

If we wanted to delete GG, we would've done it a long time ago. Our opinions don't influence our decisions.

@cb5
>disagreeing with GamerGate is the same as pro-censorship

Everyone within a mindset does not agree on the same exact list of things. It is possible be anti-GG and still be ethical in practice.

In all honesty, a weeklong lock should really help clear up the mess.

@Whatevso, this was the best post I read all night.

second post is saying that nearly all mods are sjw

The actual quote if you bothered to read it was "most, if not all, the people in the KYM irc (which includes All mods) which also includes me, have a very genuine anti-gg mentality."
You DO realize that you can be anti-GamerGate and not be a "Soical Justice Warrior" right? Or are you honestly of the mindset that "anyone who disagrees with me is a SJW!!!1!". The dislike of GG on KYM is for all aspects of it, pro or against. It's just a lot easier to make fun of (and a bit harder to ignore) users who constantly post on the actual site. If KYM had a large amount of users who were vocally anti-GamerGate, there would be just as much dislike of them.

Mods stickying his joke petition to ban GamerGate

You mean This Riff Raff thread? Yeah, you seem to be taking Riff Raff seriously. Pro tip: Never Take Riff Raff Seriously. The whole point of Riff Raff is to make stupid jokes. Unless you plan on taking other Riff Raff threads like Tonight on National Geographic: The Waifu or KYM breaking news: Stores are being invaded by one-eyed Twinkies seriously you need to understand this is a joke petition that has no bearing anywhere else on the site. Riff Raff Rules #8 :What happens in Riff Raff stays in Riff Raff.

And two database mods are sjw

First, you already made the claim that "nearly all the mods are sjw". While that is clearly false, don'tcha think the claim would kinda cover "and two database mods are sjw"? More to the point, there's only one mod that I honestly can think of that might qualify as actual Social Justice Warrior by some definitions. Their power abuse includes such things as making a thread to discuss if adding a fact with multiple sources to an entry would look like it was biased against the Men's Rights Movement. Clearly this shows that this moderator is using their power to censor other people's opinions who they disagree with.

Could be worse, they could've banned us for having an opinion that differs from them COUGHCOUGHEVERYOTHERWEBSITECOUGHCOUGH

My only solution to this problem is much stricter moderation. Something like deleting unneeded comments.

Can someone give me a quick rundown on just what happened to cause the lock in the first place?

Here is a link, Ms. Fortune.

But if you want the shortened version, then here's what happened: The comments went overboard.