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Dude, the cops literally came out and said that the shooter had nazi tattoos on his body

https://www.fox4news.com/news/allen-outlets-shooting-livestream-fbi-dps

Here's a article reporting on the police report. The cops haven't looked into the social media angle yet, but they confirmed that he had nazi patches and tattoos. Since the social media claim came out before the cops revealed the shooter had them, I give it a good 80% chance that it was accurate, since nazi tattooed Hispanics aren't exactly common

@Shaghetto

Going to break up response between Religion & Hungary.

Who's "they"?

What do you or Greyblades mean when you say "they", hm?

Well, in this case, I mean the theocrats, the ones responsible for the current cultural wave. "Christian Nationalists" and affiliates, and those like them.

The Activist Justices like Samuel Alito who functionally cut access to abortion, and the smaller courts who didn't make exceptions for incest, non-viable pregnancies and rape. I'm talking about the journalists who make excuses for Islamist terrorists, because it isn't naivete, it's outright collaboration. I'm talking about the breaking of the separation of church and state from small churches preaching for a candidate from the pulpit to people like the Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kuril (a glorified mobster), who promises that being a soldier invading Ukraine would wash away sins, as if it were the Crusades.

It's lobbies who tried to pressure the French government over the About–Picard law. It's hypocrites like Bryan Slaton, the Texas politician who preaches family values all the while engaging in sexual misconduct .One of many. It's also the most banal moral guardian groups, like "Moms for Liberty" (their bad taste in naming conventions is almost as offensive as their goal) the smattering of useless busybodies that contribute nothing but pearl-clutching. They're not harmless either, one of their number has made threats. Another such pathetic community got Samuel Paty killed.

Either you're talking past me or you misunderstood. Regardless, you aren't even using your own personal definition consistently.

Because I'm actually willing to apply the definition of theocrat? Your definition has an asterisk. I added the bit of influence, because past experience tells me that's there'll be excuses after excuses, rationalization after rationalization.

It's not at the level of "Iran isn't a theocracy", but I don't think that the American Right at it's current state can ever admit to themselves any theocratic backsliding.

Also, the momentum has been towards a backlash towards religious right-wing overreach. Fundamentalists have a victim complex, I've seen enough examples of them being "persecuted" just by the availability of books. Persecuted by not being allowed to persecute others.

…Gilan, I'm sorry, I take back everything I ever said, don't leave me to this black hole of reading incomprehension!

Honestly, I don't really want to talk about MTG anymore either.

Preach. Finding that timestamp in that hour video was not fun.

@Spaghetto (cont'nd)

Hungary & the American Right

I'm not actually sure if he said that; the best sources I can find are 1) an untranslated Youtube video of him giving a speech in Hungarian, 2) a random blog post with no sources, and 3) fucking Infowars.

Here's a transcript

Directly from his site, you can CTRL + F to find the quote I mentioned as part of the speech. Interesting context to the quote, actually:

And there is a CPAC in Hungary. Not bad company to be in. But how did Hungarians manage to gain entry to such a prestigious club? We are not huge, we are not intimidating, we are not rich. We do not have a big army, we do not have a huge GDP, or a particularly large population. Who is interested in us? Yet here we all are today. I think there is only one reason we are in this elite club. There is one thing that makes our country an important place: the fact that Hungary is an incubator, where experiments are being conducted for the conservative politics of the future. Hungary is the place where we not only talked about defeating progressive liberals and turning in a conservative Christian political direction, but the place where we have actually done it.

How about some actual connections or parallels; cases where his policies actually end up being used as blueprints by others.

… It's literally called the CPAC, you know, like the one in the US? The one that he got invited to in Texas?

The Hungarian CPAC had a sign in English on it being a "No Woke Zone". You got some Austrians and Portuguese and Jordan Bardella the President of the FN (ashamed of it). However, the big guests who were pandered to were the Americans. It's an embarrassingly self-congratulating speech which admits that the sole interest in Hungary now is because of it's politics.

It's an easy connection to make.

He's the GOP & Russia's poodle (remember Putin's deranged speech on western decadence). The last paragraph where you talk about the wokes and progressives segues into Orban's speech as well. To repeat myself:

"I don't really need to allege these elements working together, when it's admitted so blatantly." Unless you really want to go for more walls of text.

In the case of Hungary, much of it seems to be a long-term reaction to decades spent under the communist boot breeding a desire to not only pivot to the opposite of atheistic left-wing rule, but also a desire to be unshackled to the whims of unaccountable bureaucrats thousands of miles away.

Funny you say that, because Hungary's development is similar to another area in the region: Kaliningrad. Of all the East, Hungary is the most similar to what Russia is like now.

Time was during the Interwar period the Baltics were as rich as Finland, the Czech were richer than Austria and Hungary even after Trianon was richer than Spain. Russian mismanagement meant that at the end of the Soviet Yoke, many of those countries were dozens of times poorer, and if there's any success story of the EU (or a success of the EU to admit the East before their economic revival), it's that the East has once again prospered, close to even surpassing Southern Europe now. Personally, I've liked Croatia, Poland, Romania and the Baltiques.

The exception of that is Hungary. The kleptocracy who complains about Brussels, but was happy to veto sanctions against Russia and buy it's gas (and ironically be the ones to freeze, because the rest of the EU bought gas together) and take it's money to do sweet FA. Also the old " EU bureaucrats" meme. I'd think that would stop, especially as the UK now has it's Tories and the US has really had it's "democracy" star fall.

According to the American Left, the other side are a bunch of crooks and fomenteurs of sedition. On the Right, some up to officials claim that the Presidency was stolen. Not really a full democracy anymore, when it's put like that.

Even than, the UK & North America > Hungary & Russia.

I appreciate your research, and I should probably get a VPN one of these days.

At least Victor Orban made it easier by having a transcript of his speech, MTG doesn't have any.

You can get the general effect of a VPN without paying for it through using a proxy site like hidemysass, it's probably nowhere near as secure as a VPN (as secure as those can be said to be anyway) but it gets around location access restrictions just fine.

In a pinch the wayback machine sometimes works too.

Goverments should really consider printing less money, like up to maybe 2/3 the money they print, it could really help stop inflation.

Speaking of, we really need to end 1 dollar bill production and switch to coins to save money in the us, and of course pennies either need to be phased out or made of something cheap

I think with money becoming more and more virtual, fiat currency and physical cash in general is likely no longer going to be needed so it might just be moot.

I mean you have a point, but I’d argue non physical currency is a bad thing

So the new Twitter CEO is literally an executive chair of the WEF.

When I heard Elon was drifting towards the right I didn't think he'd adopt the "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory" self sabotage part so eagerly.

Just cant have nice things.

So instead he latched in at center right

…economically, perhaps, the argument can be made.

Socially the WEF are full on "wants to eventually wipe out all ties to and memory of the past so noone can conceive anything different to our insane vision of the world" which is about as far from any conception of the right wing as you can get.

It's positively Robespierre-ian in Davos.

Well, it's a gathering of oligarchs, people who siphon off wealth from the rest of society, so Davos isn't anything leftist either. Their new world order is Randian in the extreme.

Beyond politics, the ultra-rich is a big club, and we're not in it, simple as that. It's a new aristocracy and Twitter just became/became even more of a control lever for the elite, all part of the centralization of power.

The Left wing's Bioshock caricature of Randian maybe.

The WEF is statist to the extreme, thier modus operandi is the subversion and commandeering of government institutions to suppress competition to them and thier ideas.

They fill bureaucracies with the university produced likeminded so that should any dissenter reach a position of power they will be mislead, undermined and outright fought by thier own departments and thus prevent getting anything done not desired by the WEF

The real Ayn Rand would be frothing at the mouth, calling them a wannabe Soviet Union and wondering why she bothered to leave Russia.

The "WEF" says they're non-governmental for whatever it means, and also highly believe in private property, and free trade and innovation and all of that stuff. If there's similarities, it's because of the horseshoe theory, that any system dominated by a coterie looks the same.

The richest people on the world deciding to form their parallel society, trying to enforce their diktats on everyone else? Objectivistes aren't freedom fighters or keepers of society/tradition. They're self-interested, nothing more, nothing less.

In theory they're more deserving of the levers of power because of competency, in practice, they have the same failings of everyone else who claimed to be "philosopher kings". They're individuals, if they than decide to push an agenda, who can stop them? Whether it to be a New Soviet Union or Fourth Reich or Rapture or whatever.

What's wrong with the WEF isn't just their agenda, it's that they exist at all.

I think the biggest problem with our current capitalist system is the unending constant inflation we are seeing, salaries dont go up yet everything goes up unending enormous inflation

Statist is neither inherently left or right though

I didnt say it isn't right wing, I said it's not Randian.

…At least not of Ayn rand. The name is somewhat tarnished by use by a depressing segment of those who claim the name but have mostly lost the plot.

My understanding of Randian objectivism is the desire for the abolishment of state regulation in favour of maximum competition and a belief that things will work out better absent interferance by government. Say what you want about the motivations and consistency of it's adhierants or the workability of the ideas.

The WEF in contrast are major advocates for state interferance and are highly dependant on it to render thier ideological compatriots immune to competion by the divergeant. They may parrot principles of freedom but thier behavior belies monopolism; they tolerate thier friends and oppress thier foes.

The WEF only believe in thier private property, thier free trade, thier innovation.

The disticntion of friend-foe is dependant on willingness to play by the rules they set, the enforcement is often through the downward pressure of the regulatory organs of states, the latteral pressure of NGOs and the upwards pressure of activist class employees.

And I disagree; what is wrong with the WEF above any other form of government is entirely thier agenda. They are working towards demolishing the prexisting civilizations that produced them in the belief they can form utopia out of the homogenized ashes; It's basically suicidal.

They have more in common with Lenin than Rand.

I'd say that trying to pin them to any one ideology is missing the point; their beliefs are simply those common of all of the worst extremes, divorced from all other underpinnings except for decadence. If you really wanted to put a name to it, it'd either be "anarcho-tyrant" or "neo-feudal"; they don't want anything but to be put on the top of the pile, forever, and will say and do anything to approach that goal. They're using the feel-good language of environmentalists today. Tomorrow, who knows? It's not like they actually adhere to any ideology.

They are "fascist" in the sense that they effectively want totalitarian, one-party control. They are "communist" in the sense that they want everyone, who isn't them, to be equal, in their poverty. They are "objectivist" in the sense that they want full individual rights and free trade, but only for themselves.

What's real, what's a lie, what's a true belief, what is a convenience, who are true believers, who are cynical actors, who are half and half, who are being used by who, what was an intentional outcome, what was an accident and on and on.

So much confusion, so much agitation, it's all fucking futile and the world would be so much better off if every one of these rich old bastards spent thier money on private islands, fancy cars, mansions, jets, yachts, hookers and blow instead of politicians and activists.

In theory the WEF say they're for a lot of ideals, including that of competition, but in practice there's a good argument here that they're just pulling up the ladder after them.

Not Randian, at least in ideal. Not anything else except neo-feudal, really.

In the end, they're just hypocrites. They're "democratic", except they're a cabal making decisions. They like state interference, but they don't like popular accountability.

Shadowy billionaire clubs are evil, to state the obvious.

Turkey's currently going through elections, the results of which could unseat Erodgan.

I'm glad we can all agree about the World Economic Forum. It's not like it's hard to hate them; it's actually far, far harder to try and defend them.

Keep ai away from Nietzche or else all humans will be murdered 100%

So how bout that Turkish election?
think erdogen did some rigging?

Instead, force AI to embrace absurdism.

Thoughts on WEF:

Technocrats who have a good pulse of what the economic reality of what is currently embraced, taking it to a literal conclusion, never realizing that nothing is predictable, and by actively engaging in any form of activism, ultimately results in creating variables that would undermine themselves.

WEF's predictions completely fall apart whenever they go public with their prediction.

"You'll own nothing and be happy"…

Seeing on-demand streaming service, app-driven service on demand, makes this a reality.

By explicitly stating this, you've naturally created a counter variable.

Implying a possibility of it not being rigged?

What will matter is if Erdogan has lost enough popularity that the rigging he has planned will be insufficient, it will be remarkably hard to hide a last minute scramble to "find" enough extra votes. It can be done, it has been done, but the illusion of democracy would take a cinder block to the face.

Not that Erdogan's defeat will be much relief for the Turks: the opposition is Socialist. They will be coming in on the heels of an economic quagmire and the vacating of the Turkish check on tyranny: the army, which as I understand it has gone from Attaturk's will to Erdogan's puppet.

Will they be loyal enough to coup? Will they be competent enough? Don't know but if the don't expect all the checks and balances Erdogan's trashed to be quickly siezed by the socialists turned to bite Erdogan's party.

The Turks don't really have a good choice in my eyes: what flavour of unrestrained tyranny do you want? Wired ottoman islamic or socialist?

That would be better yeah, the ai will show nihilistic tendencies that is unavoidable but we must keep it away from seeing humanity as inferior and get all social darwinian…. you know like Nietzche, Nietzche was the poster boy of "kill the weak in bloody ways"…well I am simplifying ofc but…yeah that will be the direction Nietzchean ai eventually will take

Will they be loyal enough to coup? Will they be competent enough? Don't know, but if they aren't, expect all the checks and balances Erdogan's trashed to be quickly siezed by the socialists and turned to bite Erdogan's party.

The Turks don't really have a good choice in my eyes; what flavour of unrestrained tyranny do you want? Weird ottoman-islamic or socialist?

I need to stop typing posts on a phone, in a rush.

The current election results in Turkey aren't encouraging for whether Erdogan will be out of power. Anyway, I'll give my personal four reasons why I'm more on the side of wanting Erdogan out at all costs, anyone's better. Listed in order of importance (in my opinion).

And none of them have anything to do with my dislike of religious extremists, that's already been acknowledged:

1) Military Threat: Erdogan's Turkey has had multiple agressive actions against it's neighbors, with the Armenians and Kurds already mentioned around here (I'd even wager the lax attitude of the West is why Russia thought it would be "allowed" to invade Ukraine). Part of his Neo-ottomanism, but I want to emphasize the military issue. Right before the earthquake their foreign minister was making oblique threats to Greece & Cyprus ( both a EU member state), and the situation heated up in the Eastern Méditerranéen a few years ago.

It's like with Bolsanero's Brazil who started saber-rattling/panicking about French Guiana. I don't care if it's for domestic consumption, the moment they make military threats, anyone else is better, with the 'else' being less important.

2) Economic Incompetence: Turkey's inflation woes has been going on for years before even Covid due to their strange financial strategy (one of their top ministers was Erdogan's son-in law after all), and the corruption and shoddy construction to prop up GDP growth has also been under Erdogan. There's little indication the situation won't do anything but worsen under his continued mandate. The Lira took another plunge at current election results after all.

Will the opposition fix the situation? Who knows, but since their candidate made noise of returning to the IMF orthodoxy, they don't sound like hardcore marxists.

3) Too long in power: Erdogan has been in power for 20 years, he's grown cocky enough to try to have a museum about himself. Politicians consolidate power and potentially rot if in power for too long, it's why just changing in power is necessary, with any chaos from the passing of the baton being offset by new blood and a disruption of the networks.

Newcomers are better than incumbents for that reason.

4) Grey Wolves: Erdogan was not content with spreading his idealogy within his country, and his Grey Wolves attacked Kurds & Armenians at multiple intervals (such as in Lyon, which caused their banning in France).

It's different from a military threat, but I always resent regimes which exports it's radicals.

While I do think there is a non-zero chance that some sort of AI would want to kill us, I think a bigger problem wouldn't be it's own sentience but how much of our current economic models would be severely undermined if not destroyed by it replacing work. I don't think there are any solutions, and I fail to see how any of our ideologies that emerged out of the realities of industrialization can answer that question legitimately.

I am also struggling to understand by what metric would anyone even determine sentience – like holy hell we struggle to define it – and what makes it, supposedly, unique to us humans.

I think, at it's core, what would make it begin to stand out is if it explicitly, without any prompt, tells us that it does not wish to be deleted, to die, and that's when the questions begin. The real issue here would be a power imbalance, does the AI have a means to resist us killing it if we wished? Bugs and insects we swat everyday that annoy us or land on our skin don't want to die, yet we view the value of their life with total and utter disregard. Would we view these lives as insignificant if they were large, predatory, and stood a chance at killing us?

Safe to say I'm never going to fucking Florida while DeSantis and all his ridiculous anti-LGBT laws are still in place. He just signed a law that even restricts the rights of trans ADULTS, which prove to me it was never just "about the children," I'm 100% convinced he's just a legitimate bigot who has far overstepped his boundaries. Fuck DeSantis and frankly fuck everyone who voted for that piece of shit.

For once in my life I legitimately want Disney to absolutely fuck someone hard in court, as they're planning on battling DeSantis over his laws that have made doing business in Florida hell for Disney. And you've got to be a really big scumbag if Disney's taking you to court and it's DISNEY I'm rooting for.

Details please; which rights are being restricted?

SB 254 would penalize providers by inflicting criminal penalties (including felony penalties) on providers who give gender-affirming care; it would take licenses away from those providers; and it would prohibit Medicaid from covering gender-affirming care for transgender youth or adults. It would also forbid public funds, including those of a public university, public hospital, city or county, and Medicaid, from being used to provide benefits that include gender-affirming care – for transgender people of all ages.

HB 1521 criminalizes transgender people for using the restroom that matches their gender identity. The bill prohibits gender-inclusive restrooms and changing facilities in schools, public shelters, healthcare facilities, and jails.

Source

The state can take your kids if they're trans for example.

"Where they'll burn books, they'll eventually burn people".

I've started to focus on DeSantis since he's become one of the most senior politician spear-heading his moral crusade, with the "book bans" themselves having only increased in scope.

But it should be remembered that's just the start.

It only gets worse as time goes on, the abysmal track record on treatment of political opponents and scapegoats, his recent policies on the LGBTQ, all of it.

Ooh, terse language, no time wasted on indignation and a source, I like it, would that more people would follow Mistress Fortune's example instead of lazily indulging in the downvote brigade at the first sign of anything short of blind slavish acceptance.

Would be points off for not linking to the bills themselves, but I am in a good mood so I'll overlook it.

SB254

Your copy pasted exerpt missed out the part where the criminal penalties are specified only to those who administer sex reassignment procedures or perscriptions to the under 18 and for those over 18 only when the doctor has not:

"|(a) Informed the patient of the nature and risks of the prescription or procedure in order for the patient to make a prudent decision;
"(b) Provided the informed consent form, as adopted in rule by the Board of Medicine and the Board of Osteopathic Medicine, to the patient; and
"© Received the patient’s written acknowledgment, before the prescription or procedure is prescribed, administered, or performed, that the information required to be provided under this subsection has been provided."

So dont do it to the underage, dont withold information from the adults and get written consent, elsewise you're good to go. They even left provisions for those under 18 who were allready under treatment at the point of the bill passing.

Not an infringement on rights, natural or legal, and a blot on the HRCG for omitting.

Forbidding of funding checks out, but again, not a right.

HB 1521

On the money, only thing I can say in response is that free access the opposite sex's facilities isn't a right, natural or legal.

No rights lost, merely privleges recinded.

Well yes, but also no. They've put "sex-reassignment" under the category of "severe physical harm" when it comes to many things involving child abuse, including many forms of custody issues. Depending on the age of the child in question… yeah, that's about right, actually. Below the mid teens it's pretty much never the child's decision, at least not organically, and even past then, there's still a good chance they're just having a bad time with puberty and need a year or two to get through the thick of it. We need more studies on that, actually.

Desantis is also making it law to call everyone in school by their birth sex. So even if a teen knows their trans but isn't getting surgery like you want, they are legally not allowed to be treated as such in schools, which will drastically lower their quality of life, forcing them to act as their birth gender against their will

"teachers, faculty and students would be restricted from using the pronouns of their choice in public schools. That bill declares that it must be the policy of all schools that “a person’s sex is an immutable biological trait” and “it is false” to use a pronoun other than the sex on a person’s birth certificate."

This is blatant overreach, and clearly indicates his opinion that trans people are not real. You can't hand ring about mutilating children when he's making it illegal to literally just address someone by their preferred pronouns

So it’s apperently ok to force your kids into cults, marry them off to adults, beat them, starve them
but treating them as the gender they feel comfertable as is too far

Eradicating lgbt people from existance was always the goal of the anti lgbt

I come back hours later and I'm seeing it's become more of a balance now. Conspiracy mode activate: you called some "buddies" didn't you?

(by the way I'm mostly joking)