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[General] 2016 U.S. Presidential Election General

Last posted Jan 01, 2017 at 06:26PM EST. Added Aug 01, 2015 at 05:35PM EDT
2929 posts from 147 users

Glacier wrote:


Computer scientists claim evidence of possible vote manipulation with electronic voting methods

Okay, my previous sentence, and the title of the article, may be a bit unclear. They don't have the proof to be 100% sure that votes where changed, rather, they detected some suspicious patters in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, which leads to the idea that there's a high probability that there was rigging in Trump's favor.

In Wisconsin, Ms Clinton received 7 per cent fewer votes in counties that depended on electronic-voting machines compared to countries that used optical scanners and paper ballots, and consequently Ms Clinton may have lost up to 30,000 votes. She lost Wisconsin by 27,000 votes.

Today, Jill Stein is the one that request a vote recount

Note, that she's fundraising some money to do it, and that i found some comments saying that it's the actual reason. I'll give people and myself the benefit of doubt by mentioning this.

Remember how Hillary (barely) won the popular vote? (like 20k votes or .1% of votes). Well, as of this day, she has a 2 million lead . (up from 1.5m this sunday)

>Stein’s call came shortly after the report that the group of experts had told Podesta and Elias they saw evidence that Clinton received 7 percent fewer votes in Wisconsin counties that used electronic machines instead of paper ballots or optical scanners.

>On Wednesday, however, J. Alex Halderman of the University of Michigan -- one of the experts -- clarified in a Medium post that he was not claiming to have evidence of a hack, but that he still recommends a full audit beyond the partial ones that are likely to occur anyway.

Last edited Nov 23, 2016 at 10:33PM EST

Black Graphic T wrote:

You got citations for that claim there? Because I don't see any crystal balls that show the existence of parallel universes where the popular vote decides whose president. Come on, show us some statistics from countries who switched their voting method to back this up.

I can't believe you are actually serious. Just let me make sure this is clear, you actually don't think more people would vote if their vote actually mattered? I, personally didn't even vote for either main candidate partially because I live in Alabama and it literally didn't even matter. if I lived in, say, Florida, i would have MUCH more likely voted for Clinton or trump.

With Thanksgiving tomorrow, how are you guys going to deal with potential political arguments or gloating/bitterness?

My family's pretty conservative (although only two of five voted for Trump), so there's never been much in the way of animosity like the media likes to tout. At best there'll be some good natured ribbing and banter, but not the "I called sick because I hate them" like the Huffpost Comments like to say.

Also, I keep forgetting to mention this, but Maine voters approved Question 5, which will implement Ranked Choice Voting, rather than First Past the Post, when voting for President, Congress, Governor, and State reps.

In ranked choice, you rank the candidates by preference (i.e. 1. Johnson 2. Trump 3. Clinton 4. Stein 5. Whoever ran for US Taxpayers). If no one hits the threshold to win, the last place person's votes are distributed to those voter's second choice, and so on until someone hits the needed votes to win.

Glacier said:

…suspicious patters in Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania…

I love how three months ago when Trump was complaining about it being rigged, everyone was saying it was impossible and mocked him for it.

Now, they're raising 2 million dollars to do a recount in three states.

It's also strange that a U of M professor would claim Michigan's ballots were hacked, considering the State of Michigan doesn't use electronic ballots. We have paper ballots that are filled in with sharpie marker (so no hanging chads either). None of the vote counting machines are connected to the internet, so the only way to rig those would be to physically insert an ethernet/usb cable from one to a computer, which I'm certain would raise the eyebrows of the other ten people at the polling station or precinct. Then you have to repeat that thousands of times for all the other counting machines spread out across the state.

poochyena said:

…you actually don’t think more people would vote if their vote actually mattered?

People don't vote not because they're disillusioned, but because they're lazy and don't feel like it's important enough to bother with. I really doubt switching to popular vote would change that a great deal.

Last edited Nov 23, 2016 at 11:42PM EST

My family doesn't fight much over politics, we get mean-drunk off wine and force my cousin to angrily defend her art degree.

ANOTHER college campus hate crime revealed to be a hoax, this one got expelled. Bisexual student in Chicago wrote herself hateful emails, left a hateful note taped to her own door then ran to the media about the "countrywide epidemic all the sudden" of hate crimes.

Bush v Gore 2: The Recount has released it's first trailer in the form of Wisconsin agreeing to a recount.

Since Michigan is still technically undecided and is now apparently the Ohio/Florida of this election, here's a breakdown of our recount rules:

  • Michigan only allows for a state-wide recount. No individual counties are allowed to, so no Miami Dade County shenanigans this time
  • A number of different recount methods are allowed and can be used in different counties, so the crux of Bush v Gore (counties using different recounting methods, thus creating an unconstitutional abridgement of equality rights) could still be in play.
  • An automatic recount occurs when the statewide vote difference is =<2,000. It's currently ~10,000 so no automatic recount.
  • Candidates may request a recount if they feel they've been "aggrieved on account of fraud or mistake in the canvass of the votes by the inspectors of election or the returns."
  • A candidate who requests a recount must pay a deposit of $25 per voting precinct. Michigan has an estimated 2,495 precincts, which means Stein must fork over around $62,000 to begin the recount.
  • Upon completion of the recount, if a precinct's results are overturned, then the deposit for that precinct is refunded.
  • However, if the previous winner of the precinct is confirmed by a majority + 50 votes or 0.5% of the vote for that precinct, the deposit cost increases to $125, meaning if the results are confirmed in all precincts, then the Green Party will be on the hook for $311,875.
  • Recounts can be publicly attended and the challenging candidate is allowed two representatives to observe and/or challenge the recount as it's being conducted.

This doesn't feel very dramatic, though. It's an insane longshot, as far as I can see. Stein would have to get to the deadlines for all the states, the states would have to finish their recount before the electoral college goes to vote, and Clinton would have to win all three in order for her to win the election. That's a lot of things that have to go right.

I mean, this entire year has been fucking batshit crazy. Maybe it'll happen. Nothing surprises me anymore. I just kinda doubt it.

Hillary Clinton said:

This is how Donald thinks, and it's funny, but it's also really troubling. That is not the way our democracy works. We've been around for 240 years. We've had free and fair elections. We've accepted the outcomes when we may not have liked them, and that is what must be expected of anyone standing on a debate stage during a general election… It just shows you're not up to doing the job. And let's be clear about what he's saying and what that means. He's denigrating, he is talking down our democracy. And I, for one, am appalled that somebody who is the nominee of one of our two major parties would take that kind of position.

Clinton campaign joins recount effort in Wisconsin.

Clinton campaign joins recount effort in Wisconsin.

Holy shit, the demon has risen back from the dead!
Well apparently Trump officially won Michingan's votes, so congratulations to him.

Moving aside from that, apparently from what I'm hearing, Jill Stein missed the PA deadline for a recount. And with that, Trump is still our president-elect of the United States.

yeeeeeah, has anyone heard anything officially from Jill Stein or the Hillary campaign? Are they going to recount anyway? Are they going to return all the money? This has gone about exactly as expected.

lisalombs wrote:

yeeeeeah, has anyone heard anything officially from Jill Stein or the Hillary campaign? Are they going to recount anyway? Are they going to return all the money? This has gone about exactly as expected.

I'm pretty sure she's still seeking recounts in Wisconsin and Michigan, though those are likely to go up in flames along with PA.

On her fundraising page, there's a disclosure that she can't guarantee recounts in any of these states. With that in mind, the odds of refunds are practically zilch. I have no idea what she's going to do with the money but I'm pretty sure it's all just going into Green Party coffers to fund their next campaign.

Colonel Sandor wrote:

Stein is already claiming she can't promise the millions of dollars she's raised will all go to recount efforts.

So in other words…she stole their money and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Michigan's Board of Canvassers has certified Trump as the winner, by 10,704 votes. Stein has until Wednesday to file a request for a statewide hand recount, which is expected to be a non-stop cram session to meet the December 13th "safe harbor" deadline. I was also wrong in my earlier estimate. Michigan has 6,200 precincts, meaning she'll have to pay $790,000. The recount itself will cost over $900,000.

So thanks Green Party. That's $110,000 less we get to spend on roads, or pensions, or Flint. I'm more glad than ever I voted against that green energy referendum back in '12.

Also, 84,290 ballots were cast that did not select a candidate for President.

In other news, a Republican Texas elector has resigned in protest of Trump's election win. So much for convincing them to vote for Clinton/Romney instead.

lisalombs said:

Jill Stein sues Wisconsin for not agreeing to make it mandatory for counties to recount their votes by hand.

>it's a "SCOTUS has to decide a county by county recount method" episode
I hate it when they rehash plots.

Idk, Clinton did get the popular vote, yet Trump still won. I feel its an ok reason to do it. Its not like there was no reason to believe there could have been some issues with this election.

Black Graphic T wrote:

So in other words…she stole their money and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Granny Jill Stein has gone off her rocker. Like, she came off as a fairly sane person, but now she's just… what is she even trying to accomplish at this point? She has stated that a Hillary presidency would bring disaster, yet she's trying to assist Clinton into getting into the White House by recounting votes? And is now essentially stealing money from donors to accomplish this?

Last edited Nov 29, 2016 at 01:04AM EST

Someone in the comments of the recount article suggested Jill is actually trying to expose fraud on the part of the DNC instead (what a twist!) by doing this but if that were the case I imagine she'd be pushing for recounts in states Hillary barely won, too.

Last edited Nov 29, 2016 at 01:35AM EST

I've seen enough failed kickstarter projects to see where this is going. I feel sorry for all those uninformed people throwing money at jill stien, hoping beyond hope that they can get rid of trump as president.

It's like any other of these projects though. They'll promise you the world and more for your money, and then turn around and scram when you ask why they didn't deliver.

Negotiating since his election, Trump and Pence will appear at Carrier's manufacturing plant in Indianapolis to announce he has convinced the company to keep the majority of the 2000+ jobs it planned to move to Mexico in the USA instead. Carrier, like Ford (who also agreed to keep a factory here instead of moving to Mexico as planned), expects Trump to follow through on his promise to lower the corporate income tax and get rid of over-complicated regulations.

I'm not a fan of lowering taxes to keep corporations here. I'd like companies to stay because of our great infrastructure and quality of work, not because we are the cheapest. Its like McDonalds vs Red Robbins or whatever.

poochyena wrote:

I'm not a fan of lowering taxes to keep corporations here. I'd like companies to stay because of our great infrastructure and quality of work, not because we are the cheapest. Its like McDonalds vs Red Robbins or whatever.

That analogy doesn't quite work with what's going on because the corporations are the ones whose product quality is being produced. Money itself is more of the issue, which doesn't really have a quality but quantity to it. To keep with the burger reference, let's say both McDonalds and Red Robbins wants to buy hamburger for their products.

The United States, for a while, used to charge a modest 2.50 a pound for its ground beef, somewhat high but not too high. Then, it started charging 3.00, then 3.50, and then 4.50, and finally 6.50 a pound, or 39.1 percent taxes, making it the third most expensive beef outside of Chad and the United Arab Emirites. Now along comes a bunch of other countries, some of them even nice european ones, offering cheaper beef but of a similar quality.

Because, while its a bit more of a drive, UK tax is 20%, let's say 4.50 a lb ground beef. China and India of course, offer it at like 85 cents a lbs, and the quality is poor, but for McDonalds that savings is more then enough. Red Robbins however prides itself on quality, and won't do something like that. However, mexico has a 30% tax rate, let's call that 5.50 lbs, which ain't that bad and mexico quality isn't the best but isn't the worst either.

Then you have canada, whose beef is close to the US's quality, and offers it at 38%, 6.40 for ground beef. Even if Red Robbins likes quality, saving even 10 cents on beef while still bein relatively close to their current location is a mighty tempting offer.

So something needs to happen. The price of ground beef needs to decrease overall, or it needs to be harder and harder for people to shop at other stores for different ground beef prices. We tried the later method and it didn't work, so now we're trying to former method to see if its any better.

That makes no sense at all. Both of those companies were fleeing our quality of work and infrastructure because it's not worth paying 39% in taxes on top of higher fair labor. It's the highest in the WORLD. They'd rather pay a corrupt government 25% and save with cheap and dangerous labor to produce products they can sell to you at jacked up prices. Except you can't afford to pay jacked up prices because you can't get a well paying job in your own country unless you have a degree and $60k of student debt, and you can't get a poor paying job in your own country because there are hundreds of thousands of immigrants on work visas who are always willing to do it for less, depressing your wage.

Update on the recount here in Wisconsin, since this is relevant to my state:

Green Party candidate Jill Stein paid $3.5 million Tuesday to clear the way for Wisconsin's presidential vote recount but had a judge reject her lawsuit to require all Wisconsin counties to do the recount by hand.

Dane County Circuit Judge Valerie Bailey-Rihn said the effort to force the hand recount -- which was backed by Democrat Hillary Clinton’s campaign -- did not meet the state’s legal standard for prohibiting the use of machines in the recount, saying that the two campaigns did not show a hand recount, though more thorough, was necessary or show there was a clear and convincing evidence of fraud or other problems.


Last edited Nov 30, 2016 at 02:45AM EST

I haven't seen much of anyone talk about President-elect Trump's cabinet appointments as a whole so far.

I don't have much to say. So I'm just reading. But since it's mostly supporters here now, what do you think? Are you happy across the board? What don't you like?

I am wholly horrified that Romney has been there twice and want to believe I'm being trolled. On the other hand, he agrees with most of Trump's positions on the things SoS generally takes care of. I would still prefer he does not.

Everybody else I've been okay with, he's doing what he said he'd do. He's not picking straight up super conservatives and he's not picking super liberals either.

NV is joining the recount, one of the third partiers who was spited by the DNC (and believes they committed election fraud against him) decided to file because Hillary won here by the same margin Trump won in Wisconsin. Rocky De La Fuente of the American Delta Party (I think?) will fund it himself.

Jill Stein wants a recount in Wisconsin.
It just so happens that Jill Stein had more votes than the disparity between Hillary and Trump.


If you, Jill Stein, didn't run, there would be an argument to make that they would have voted for Hillary and won Wisconsin for her.

Anyone else find this hilarious? I mean, I figured after the election sh it will calm down and we can focus on real issues. But Jesus Christ, the reaction of post-Trump win is just absolutely petulant.

Colonel Sandor wrote:

In a year of dissatisfaction with and outright rejection of establishment politics, House Democrats re-elect 76 year old Nancy Pelosi as minority leader.

Lessons have not been learned apparently.

> the rural folk, which has had to sustain 8 years of economic blight, skyrocketing suicide rates, drug and alcohol abuse, and prospects of further economic destruction came out in droves to vote for a candidate who at least offered an ear to their legitimate grievances won their vote. You know, the REAL working class that used to be all in for Democrats?

< no it must because of voter fraud, racists, KKK members, and white supremacy. Poor White people? That's a myth! Cuz' privilege. And you'd think I'd be hyperbolic.

> demanding the Electoral College, an institution designed to further minimize the impact a potentially tyranny of majority, and maximize state and geographical appeal of Presidents, among many other checks on government, is now suddenly deemed in need of elimination from our political system. Yet not realizing that the institution they don't understand at all, can only be removed under a bigger institution of how our amendment process works.

(Here's a hint, to those that think the Electoral College should be rid of: Ask the majority of states who don't have the population of California, Texas, and New York, if they'd like to give up their entire political representation, willingly, so the privileged Urbanites can feel satisfied that you should have the power. Because that's what it's going to take to get rid of the Electoral College. To prevent your tyranny.)

< Not at all understanding that there is an entire other America that lives 50 miles outside of your cities that have been hit the hardest by the economic recession, and they also have a say in our political system.

>Demanding a recount because if it didn't go our way the election didn't count, and of course we are all that matters.

< Hey, that other America, you know, the one you continually pretend doesn't exist? They STILL got the vote.

If this entire post-Election has shown me anything it is that the Left and the Democrats are totally unwilling to learn from their mistakes, and, as a political party, and as a political movement, are too arrogant in their own virtue to admit that they have missed something big and they can't see what it is.

I have friends who are legit following the recount story like a hawk – and while the campaign season was going on had nothing interesting to say or comment. It's utter petulance.

…so I guess the cabinet appointments aren't noteworthy, good or bad then.

I felt that was a big part of the election's importance, but no one seems excited.

Verbose wrote:

…so I guess the cabinet appointments aren't noteworthy, good or bad then.

I felt that was a big part of the election's importance, but no one seems excited.

To be honest, I think it's kind of confusing to most people who aren't political junkies.

Take the Transportation Secretary pick, Elaine Chao. She served in the GW Bush administration, and is the wife of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. Now, on paper she is part of the "swamp", and that confuses and concerns some Trump supporters. However, some think this was done to neutralize McConnell from obstructing Trump's agenda in the Senate. That sort of sounds like wishful thinking to me, but we'll see. And as far as Democrat voters go, why would they care about the Transportation Secretary? That's not a knock on them, the same would be true for Republicans if Clinton had won. Transportation isn't an issue which invokes passion.

But no one really cares about the Transportation Department or the Department of Health and Human Services unless you're deep into policy, which most people aren't, or work in those agencies, which most people don't.

The biggest announcements will be Secretary of State and Secretary of Defense, because, like the the Attorney General, people see these individuals on the news regularly and experience the impact of their decisions in everyday life. The announcement of Sessions as AG caused a minor stir, and I expect the others to be even bigger. Trump, I believe, is purposely delaying these announcements and saving them for last in order to control the news narrative.

And just wait until the Supreme Court nominee is announced…

Last edited Nov 30, 2016 at 09:44PM EST

Verbose wrote:

…so I guess the cabinet appointments aren't noteworthy, good or bad then.

I felt that was a big part of the election's importance, but no one seems excited.

I'm not one for soothsaying. The cabinet picks are an interesting mix but not really stand out in terms of elected people, at least not ones of note to keep talking about until they actually begin enacting policies. tbh it kinda seems hodgepodged, but I suppose that's a good thing to keep a variety of opinions open.

Ther'es not a lot ot talk about that isn't wild speculation and attempted fortune telling until actual policies start coming out of the administration.

Stein's recount will likely cost us in excess of 4 million dollars.

I really hope the first thing the Michigan Legislature does to kick off the 2017 session is pass a new recount law that requires the candidate to pay for all of the recount.

In other news, Trump likely held federal contracts over United Technologies' head as part of the Carrier deal. UT's a major defense contractor with government contracts worth 6.7 billion.

And, Wisconsin counties will be allowed to pick their recounting method. The haunting voice of Bush v Gore echoes in the distance.

Verbose said:

Are you happy across the board? What don’t you like?

I'm rather indifferent (I can't even name any of the current cabinet heads, except for AG Lynch), although I would have liked a more meritocratic approach toward the process rather than the standard "reward allies" that usually happens with executive/ambassadorial appointments.

Tyranid Warrior #1024649049375 said:

I’m not sure but I think the real reason Jill Stein is going nuts about these recounts is because she hopes that her party reaches that 5% limit that would grant the Green Party more money in order to better run their next campaign.

I think it's just attention seeking. Finally, the Green Party is in headlines (of course, in the case of Michigan, it's not exactly the endearing kind of headlines). She needs around 5 million more votes to get to 5% and I don't think any combination of state is so incompetent as to miscount 1.5% of the US population.

I've been going through the forums on TV Tropes, and man do the users there absolutely loathe Donald Trump. Heck, when I said I was trying to keep an open mind about him, this is what they said to me:

"Donald Trump is the one who hates people here…

Let's get one thing straight about this open mind business…it's utterly meaningless. The only people who need open mind are people who need second chances. Donald Trump hasn't got second chances…he's got endless chances, he has infinite lives, he has cheat codes, he's used his wealth, his race, his gender, his luck as privileges to get through stuff that would condemn most people not of that background and advantage.

In fact I think the problem with this election is that people have had too open a mind…he is a misogynist, lets have an open mind, the KKK support him, lets have an open mind…and so on and so forth. Trump has power, we don't have any power. We're sitting here in this chatroom out of refuge seeking a platform to say whats on our mind…say it while we still can.

The burden of proof is on Trump to prove us wrong. Not on us to expect things better. We have every right and reason to think and expect the worst and prepare ourselves, mentally and psychologically. Take stock of our existing laws and institutions and what challenges we have to face and so on."

"This is weird sense when people like a product you like to latch onto fringe opinions criticizing that product. And then you keep repeating it.

But when people here at large criticize Trump after he literally stacks his cabinet with the unqualified, the racist, the establishment and the crazy, you want to keep an open mind."

And as for why you should've voted for Hillary Clinton?

"She accepts climate change, she was going to give us the public option on health care, and basically bring NHS to America…Hillary has always sponsored a much broader and ambitious health care scheme than anyone else proposed, more than Obama, and better than Obamacare. She was going to uphold civil liberties and basic social norms.

Anyways you should've voted for Hillary because she was offering economic solutions. She had extremely detailed plans on what she wanted. But the election wasn't a debate between policies. It was a personality debate.

And you should've voted for her because she actually believes in climate change and wants to combat it.

Trump doesn't. Climate change is the biggest existential threat facing the humans at the moment and Trump is choosing to ignore it."

"Hillary was going to increase government spending into programs to improve infrastructure and the battered industries of the rural heartland. She was planning to revive the Old FDR days. All those Trump voting idiots, voted against the very person who wanted to help them who proposed ideas that could have directly helped them.

Her policies was going to work similar to how the New Deal did, use government spending to create employment.

She was also going to get the wealthy to pay their taxes and improve regulation…yes she was Wall Street friendly, but you have to be if you want to be an Internal Reformist and all American Presidents are Internal Reformist rather than revolutionaries…that includes the first one, Washington as well.

Her plans on improving clean energy and battle climate change was way better than Obama's as even Noam Chomsky (a man who hates commending US politicians on general principle) grudgingly admits."

Lastly, they pointed out to me, through this link, that hate crimes against minorities have risen since Trump was elected:


Last edited Dec 01, 2016 at 04:36AM EST

One last thing the TV Tropes users told me:

"One reason to be wary of Trump's upcoming administration is the people he is surrounding himself with and granting positions of power. White supremacists? There are several. Establishment figures? A few are former Dubya Cabinet members. Big Business and Money? The new Secretary of Commerce is a former Rothschild bigwig (who almost certainly still has ties to them) and the new Treasury Secretary is a former Goldman Sachs and Soros bigwig (and again almost certainly still has connections). Trump also created a new "chief strategist" position for Steve Bannon, who by all accounts is an bigoted anarchist.

Trump himself has made statements that he will end net neutrality, repeal or severely cripple the ACA, and his much ballyhooed Infrastructure Plan is nothing more than a glorified tax break scheme for contractors and developers (like himself).

The GOP Congress will almost certainly allow him to do whatever he wants since he will likely approve everything they want. That includes the FADA, a "religious freedom" law that would effectively set civil rights in America back decades, and the privatization of Medicare (Paul Ryan's pet project).

The contrast between HRC and Trump on climate change has already been mentioned. But for completion's sake: Trump is going to make a fucking climate-change denier head of the EPA!

Then there's his Wall and his Muslim registry. Some people try to claim that he's not serious about those things. Except he is dead fucking serious about those things."

Is there any truth to this?

Last thing. When I tried to tell them about keeping an open mind, how did they respond?

"You first…Me and everyone else are sick and tired of having open minds to people who don't give one to us.

Everytime we did this unilateral open-mind thing we had bad things…Jim Crow and Lost Cause, Reagan and Welfare Queens…just bad things everywhere."

One even linked to this as proof as to why we shouldn't give Trump a chance:

Your thoughts?

{ Hillary was going to increase government spending into programs to improve infrastructure and the battered industries of the rural heartland }

Let's set aside infrastructure being the basis of Trump's whole economic plan, which he does in fact have and has in fact made many details of public over his campaign and especially since… Rural Democrats say party ignored us, now face the consequences.

{ Hillary has always sponsored a much broader and ambitious health care scheme than anyone else proposed, more than Obama, and better than Obamacare }

Obamacare has utterly failed, cost people health plans that suited them and doctors they liked, and driven away insurers in states that used to have healthy competition because those insurers pulled out of the exchange, they're losing hundreds of millions of dollars.

{ Aetna CEO Mark Bertolini said that this was supposed to be a break-even year for its ObamaCare business. Instead, the company has already lost $200 million, which it expect that to hit $320 million before the year it out. He said the company was abandoning plans to expand into five other states and is reviewing whether to stay in the 15 states where Aetna (AET) current sells ObamaCare plans.

Aetna's announcement follows UnitedHealth Group's (UNH) decision to leave most ObamaCare markets, Humana's (HUM) decision to drop out of some, Blue Cross Blue Shield's announcement that it was quitting the individual market in Minnesota, and the failure of most of the 23 government-created insurance co-ops. And it follows news that insurance companies are putting in for double-digit rate hikes that in some cases top 60%, and news that the Congressional Budget Office has sharply downgraded its long-term enrollment forecast for the exchanges. }

{ was also going to get the wealthy to pay their taxes and improve regulation }

The wealthy already pay 3/4 of the income taxes in this country, what does making them pay even more of it do? Do you know the federal government took in record income taxes of $221,692,000,000 THIS OCTOBER ALONE. ONE MONTH. Jesus fucking Christ if they can't pull it together with that kind of budget, we should nuke the country and start from scratch. I'm sure as fuck not going to pay more because government bureaucrats can't budget with $221 BILLION dollars A MONTH. They ran a $44 BILLION dollar deficit IN OCTOBER!! Fucks sake!! Why do THEY get infinite chances, if you want to talk about people getting chances.

{ }

BRILLIANTLY HEADLINED PROPAGANDA. The Center has recorded 897 bias incidents since the election, not hate crimes. Among these, they count anonymous messages online and blatantly fake hoaxes. Please tell me you think this really happened: { In Arlington, Virginia, a woman was crossing the street when two white men yelled from their car: “You better be ready because with Trump, we can grab you by the pussy even if you don’t want it.” } Even rapists know they're doing something wrong, lirully no one actually believes they can go around grabbing pussies just because Trump is President.

You notice they don't have a tracker for liberal hate crime hoaxes or the millions of dollars in private property damage during those post-election protests?

{ The new Secretary of Commerce is a former Rothschild bigwig }

Wilbur Ross is known as the "king of bankruptcy" because he buys and invests in failing, bankrupted businesses and turns them into thriving, profiting businesses. He's done this hundreds of times.

{ the new Treasury Secretary is a former Goldman Sachs and Soros bigwig }

Steve Mnuchin hasn't worked there for 15 years and is now a Hollywood financier for all your fav movies. He joined Trump's campaign in the primaries and acted as peacemaker early on to secure an agreement of support between the campaign and RNC.

{ Steve Bannon, who by all accounts is an bigoted anarchist. }

Multiple pundits, especially those on CNN, have been forced to publicly apologize and acknowledge there is absolutely no quotes from or proof at all that Steve Bannon holds any kind of bigoted views, and all of these accusations are based on the fact that he formerly edited Breitbart. Literally, go look it up, try this headline: { Breitbart Ran a Headline Referring to a Commentator as a ‘Renegade Jew’ } ps the article was an op-ed piece written by a Jew and has nothing to do with Bannon.

{ Then there’s his Wall and his Muslim registry. }

Border security is not racist xenophobia, tons of countries have border walls. Muslim registry was walked back to list that monitors people who come from countries full of radical Islamic terrorists. They don't even have to know they're on it, just like you don't know if you've been put on a domestic terror list for stockpiling water bottles, but it means someone is keeping an eye. Somebody would have seen the recent anti-USA pro-radical cleric social media posts the recent OSU terrorist had been posting lately, for example. He lived in Pakistan for years, and the FBI admitted he wasn't known to them, he could have built a bomb instead of jumped a curb in his car.

The people you're talking to are the same people throwing tantrums in college campus administrative offices because the election didn't go their way. Do not encourage them.

Flashback Obama

{ "Those jobs of the past are just not going to come back. When somebody says, like the person you just mentioned who I’m not going to advertise for, that he’s going to bring all these jobs back, well how exactly are you going to do that? What are you going to do? There’s -- there’s no answer to it. He just says, “Well, I’m going to negotiate a better deal.” Well, how -- what -- how exactly are you going to negotiate that? What magic wand do you have? And usually, the answer is he doesn’t have an answer." }

I guess he had an answer!! Person I responded to about tvtropes forums, tell those moistened bints if Hillary had been elected Ford and Carrier would still be moving to Mexico and nobody would have even tried to stop them, to save those jobs. The Democrats told rural America to get fucked, go back to college for $60k and learn to be a computer engineer at 55 because solid manufacturing jobs are never coming back. How can you not feel their frustration just reading that sentence?

@LightDragonman1 , Those are some spicy pranks you've posted up there, I'll tell you what. It's a bit too salty for my taste though. Too much salt is bad for your heart, you see, and bad for the soul as well.

Republicans begin to back peddle on total repeal of ACA

Wonder if the republicans realize that a large amount of the assistance they get to live in the rust belt comes from the "evil city folk".

Despite Trump's deal 1,300 people are going to lose their jobs

Good to see Trump's plans are already working fine. So how many more companies will threaten to move out of the US, to get Trump's tax break reward for staying? Or still moving half their jobs out of the country?

{ to get Trump’s tax break reward for staying? }

Reducing the corporate income tax isn't a tax break and applies to all companies who operate here regardless of whether they threaten to leave or not. Carrier and Ford were already out the door, they both told their investors they were moving to Mexico last year and moved forward with plans to do so. 3k people were going to lose their jobs at Carrier, now less than half of them are and all he's done is told them he's going to do what he said he'd do during his campaign. He's not even been inaugurated yet and he's negotiating back what eight years of Democrat regulations sent fleeing.

Only liberals could find a way to be upset about this lmao.

">tfw your attempt to get the Electoral College to vote for someone besides Trump only causes Clinton electors to vote for the person":
If they vote for Jeb! I will likely die of blood loss as my sides are rended from by body.

Trump's also challenged the Michigan recount on the grounds that Stein can't be be aggrieved since she got so few votes. The State Board of Canvassers will hear Trump's case later today and, because it has two Dems and two Reps, is likely to deadlock on the matter, which will allow the recount to proceed after two business days (Wednesday).

LightDragonman1 said:

I’ve been going through the forums on TV Tropes, and man do the users there absolutely loathe Donald Trump.

The election thread there was great first, but the shadenfreude wore off quick and they really started to piss me off with the "everyone who voted for Trump is a racist, sexist, bigoted rural hick" stuff.

And if you think I'm exaggerating…

trump voter base are consisted of two people: the racist who just want their country white again like the roten spoiled child they are and the delusional who truly believe Trump is the anti-establishment messiah send to slay the awfull dragon-Hilary.

If you can casually vote for such an unrepentant xenophobe, you are one by association…

They had to look at Trump and look at his bigotry, his fascism, his support from the Klan, his lies, and everything else and say, "that's fine with me." They're bigots. Every single one of them.

his main voting group is those undereducated people that never got exposed to ideas in college, those rural people in the deep south that rooted for the KKK guys in Mississippi Burning, who hated Obama despite everything he did, and who hated all of the progress we made as a country these past eight years.

whatever sympathy I had for rural America is now completely gone… They voted for a conman because they were tired of the blacks and the browns taking entitlements and that they themselves only deserve them… fuck rural America.

It's like reading a microcosm of "How the Democratic Party Lost the Rust Belt." It also makes me really glad KYM's not a circlejerk of an echo chamber for one side.

Your thoughts?

These are people who were openly advocating for civil war and assassinating Trump--to the point the mods had to come in, delete posts, issue warnings, and ultimately threaten to lock the thread if they kept up. In other words: they're not very rational and stink of the very bigotry they so vigorously say they oppose.


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