Forums / Fun! / Memeory Lane

lol all these "fuck rural america" posters. It's like, "Okay then, plant your own damn crops in the spring, and harvest your own damn food in the fall, mine your own damn coal for your electricity, and don't come crying when you start freezing and starving in the winter".

Rural america is kinda the one who keeps the practical goods america needs to survive flowing through the country. Even if I disagree with that regions views and values, I'm not going to short-change them as somehow lesser or unimportant compared to myself.

Yeah, it's very, very hard to actually have a discussion in the TV Tropes Politics Thread, mainly for all the reasons you guys have listed. Heck, even if I tried to give counter-arguments, they'd all just say the same things. They seem to associated rural America with "racist, white supremacist, sexist, homophobic, Islamophobic, uneducated bigots", view Trump as the worst person in the world, and see Hillary Clinton as some sort of saint, with any claims of her scandals or failings as either being based on flimsy evidence or just "propaganda". Like, every time I try to tell them to have an open mind, how do they respond?

"It's quite hilarious how people saying we should give Trump a chance never even considered that with Clinton."

"People who ask us to have an "open mind" about a man who has run on wild incompetence, the most blatant racism this side of a Klan rally, spewed nothing but hateful gibberish for policy, shown an incredibly childish vindictive personality, impulsively cut funding to vital research by accusing it of being "politicized," and promised to stick his tiny fingers into everything he can to pay off his buddies while openly showing he has no intention of not looting the government through his kids are either blind or have absolute faith that being white will protect them from the coming days."

It really does seem like they are legitimately afraid of the guy, and honestly believe everything the media has said about him. Case in point, when I asked why he's a misogynist, and why he's not going to help people, here's what they said:

"Well, there's the "Miss Piggy" incident when he publicly fat-shamed a Miss Universe who put on a few pounds. There's also the whole "walking in on Miss Universe contestants in their changing rooms" thing, which he also did with Miss Teen Universe and contestants as young as 15. There's the bit where his entire campaign was basically applying the classic pickup artist technique of "negging" to the entire USA (not a directly misogynistic act, but based on a very old misogynistic technique). He was also recorded as having a rule against women over 35. Oh, and he seems to generally judge the value of any and all women by their appearance, like calling primary rival Carly Fiorina unelectable on the grounds of her appearance (I mean, she would have been a horrible president, but appearance has nothing to do with that). And on a related note to all this, there's the whole thing with him seeming to want to screw his daughter, Ivanka, and objectifying his own younger daughter from literally day one.

The man is an objectifying, fat-shaming, slut-shaming, sexual assaulting misogynist of the highest order."

"We're talking about a guy who was born into immense wealth, has extremely tacky tastes that try to flaunt that immense wealth, who has never really HAD to work for anything in his life, and who generally treats everyone with ambivalence at best and extreme incivility at worst. And this guy managed to convince a bunch of middle and working class people, in spite of those qualities, that he was beyond corporate interests, that he "represented" them and that he would "drain the swamp".

I don't know about you guys but this is one of the biggest cons I've ever seen. I don't think it's
possible to out-Trump him. He's in a league of his own.

It would be pretty damn funny to see someone try though."

Seriously, it's pretty much impossible to have a civil discourse with them about the guy. Again, you guys have proved much more willing to have open discussion. I really have to commend you all for that.

For that matter, how would you respond to those posts from them if you could?

And the "City folk" are the ones paying a large amount of taxes so that rural American can stay afloat with their crops and currently medicare. Economies are built upon cycles. With a livable minimum wage, free medicare, and free college, Rural America benefits just as much as anyone maybe even more so because so many manufacturing jobs have moved away. Cities can provide huge amounts of tax dollars that could be used to help the Rust belt. Almost as if everyone stands to benefit from more social programs.

But no, Establishment Democrats want to ignore the Rust Belt population, while the Establishment Republicans want to make promises they won't keep and blame the Democrats to keep the Rust belt from realizing that their own political party really doesn't give a damn about them.

If republicans really did care about America they wouldn't have ran a 8 year political lock-down on Obama. Shut down what needed too but don't just shut it down because the other political party Agrees with it.

You're talking about a party whose front-runner said one of her main goals was to put people in the rust belt out of work. Even with all the false promises in the world, when the alternative you have to face is a candidate promising to put you out of work because they want more people to use a faulty and half-working at best power source, is it really their fault they voted the way they did?

It was literally "die, or take a risk of being lied to". So they chose to take a risk, even the democrats among them who probably fought against actual racism, actual sexism, and actual, life costing, discrimination, and throw in with Trump. Because the party they would have liked to vote for decided they were worth less then the dirt in their field.

And their voter base continues to demonstrate the notion to be on point, given the amount of vitriol and intolerance coming out of it.

Its a fucking tragedy of the century is what it is. Hopefully by 2018 the democrats can maybe try to wake up and smell the ashes of what they've planted, and maybe correct course a bit. Otherwise, they're going to be in for a long and painful 8 years of republic dominance.

I still believe Bernie would have been a far better choice and would have easily got people on his side. I think if Bernie keeps up his work he could swing the Democrats towards a better direction.

I just hope that the current administration (NOT just Trump so calm your nips) won't do too much damage.

Though if they really ruin everything I think the democrats could take the nation by storm even if they don't completely change their perception of rural America.

Yeah, most likely. Tends to be the meter stick that people use to measure when the country needs to go in a different direction.

I see we still haven't accepted that literally all of Bernie's support was from Millennials, who are now roughly the same slice of the electorate as Baby Boomers yet under 50% of them voted compared to over 70% of the Boomers.

{ And the “City folk” are the ones paying a large amount of taxes so that rural American can stay afloat with their crops and currently medicare. }

Which has more to do with the fact that we prefer to import food produced unsustainably with slave labor from halfway around the world than it says anything about rural Americans. Do you want to reduce climate change? Then you need to stop consuming industrial asparagus grown in the middle of the Peruvian desert just because it costs you .30 less (which doesn't even make up for the carbon emissions it costs to fly the crop into the country) and you need to start buying from American farmers instead. Then they wouldn't need government subsidies to stay afloat among ASININE government regulations, such as the country's largest producer of dairy California now officially regulating livestock farts by law. Hope you're ready for $5 milk! Thanks, god damn rural folks!

Older people tend to vote more than young people. When the Boomers were the same age as Millennials are now I'm sure they had a much lower voter turn out than their parents.

Do people still talk about Bernie Sanders as if he is going to become somehow relevant?

I've brought this up in many forums this election, and it's a damn simple question:

How much are you willing to pay for his two biggest social platforms: universal healthcare, and free education?

His entire economic platform is based on nothing. Democrat-leaning economists themselves pointed out that his plan is literally 1 trillion dollars underfunded. Like I get it, he's everyone's friendly grandpa, but he's also the grandpa that's constantly asking your dad for more and more money, and he just can't wait to start asking you for your money too.

^boi go to Reddit and see

Many economists say Trump's plan is outragous/impossible/missing money/a scam.
Many legal teams are now saying that Trump has a conflict of interest because of his businesses that he still owns.

But everyone is still yelling "give him a chance!"

Didn't Trump say he was leaving his company in order to better run the nation?

As for those TvTropes commentators, I'd try to tell them that they were being lied to by the media about how Trump's literally the reincarnation of Hitler. I'd also try to tell them that if by chance he was exactly as the media pointed him out to be, he still wouldn't be able to get a thing done because he can only control what's in his own department, the Executive Branch. If he wanted to re-institute slavery then he'd have to get the judicial branch to write it and the legislative branch to pass it, which neither of them would. As well, almost all of the laws protecting our rights is in the Constitution, and if he wanted to get rid of them, he'd have to pass his own amendment repealing all those other ones.
Case in point: it'd be almost impossible for him to do it.
These people are acting as if the President has absolute power like a monarch. While he does have a lot of power, he doesn't have all of it.

lmao yep he did, ya'll always like a week behind. That's fucking funny tho because we can actually point to legitimate conflicts of interest during Hillary's time in the government, forget about Trump's potential conflicts being blown up before he's even inaugurated. One of Hillary's many scandals were all the foreign donations she took while negotiating government contracts for those countries as SoS.

& no, even liberal economists admit Trump's domestic plans make sense. The scandal there is that top bracket may see a 15% reduction while the bottom bracket may only see 1%. This is because the top bracket pays 39% while the bottom pays 10%, and Trump wants the tax bracket to go more like 10% – 25%.

This ^ regards the personal income tax, not the corporate income tax rate which he wants to lower to 15%.

The problem is people of the new generation kinda want an absolute monarch. They want states to have no rights or say in what occurs. They want congress and the senate to have little to no say in what a government does or does not do, they want a supreme court that is stacked and highly bias in their favor, and they want a president who can enact any law they want, and will be unquestioned in their leadership.

They want all of that so long as the people in charge have their same views, and they couldn't give two-shits about the other side and would probably support making it illegal to disagree with the dominant party so long as the party in charge was theirs.

That's why so many of them take all of Trump's promises or claims, and all of Hillary's promises and claims, and all of Bernie's promises and claims, at complete face value. And why most of them couldn't name their own governer, state senator, senator, or congressmen, if you had a gun on their family and friends threatening to kill them if they didn't name one of them.

Despite the state legislature and state senate and state government having way more ability to fuck with them directly then the federal government ever will, to the new generation, states are just an archaic relic of the past. All hail the new sovereign of the land, may there be no balances of power to stop them.

Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette has filed a lawsuit with the Michigan Supreme Court asking them to issue a writ of mandamus ordering the Board of Canvassers to stop the recount. The court is 5-2 in favor of Republicans.

>tfw Schuette v Michigan Board of Canvassers might go to SCOTUS

Basilius said:

Older people tend to vote more than young people. When the Boomers were the same age as Millennials are now I’m sure they had a much lower voter turn out than their parents.

They were also far more liberal then than they are now. I can guarantee most millennials will gradually drift to the center and possibly even swing right as they get older, just as previous generations did. Of course, that could just be perception. Progressive politics is always about the cutting edge and it's likely millennials' ideologies will be abandoned or deemphasized by it as gay marriage and the like becomes standard and it shifts into the next cause to rally behind, leaving them fitting more in with the slower moving Republican Party.

I don't get why the recounts are a big deal. From what I heard they already paid the costs and the system is there for a reason. Yea it is probably for attention and totally pointless but its a system we have regardless.

I'm sure the next big fight will be for either universal income or robotic rights.

Well there's a number of concerns with the recounts.

For one thing Jill Stein is conveniently only doing the recounts in the states that Clinton won. While this is in of itself fine, it's just weird that she didn't do something like NH which was decided by a FAR smaller margin than WI, MI, and PA. Especially since her goal is to "Maintain the integrity of the election (paraphrasing a bit here)." This has blurred the relationship between the Green Party and the Democratic Party so much that I believe the Green Party actually ended up disavowing her as a result of it.

Another thing is that given that these recounts were being pushed for so late that it may actually hamper the ability of the states' electors to cast their vote on Dec 13th, screwing Trump out of some votes. This is especially annoying given all the obstacles that these recounts are being put through, prolonging the process.

Apart from that there's some of the complaints about how this is a waste of money (something I personally agree with) and all the theories about how people are going to "find" ballots that conveniently allow Hillary to win (which is astronomically low, but the thought still remains).

Even if it is totally pointless She has the right to do it. I don't think a court should block recounts. I don't like that precedent that it sets. All those people donated money knowing that nothing might come of it. They decided to waste their money so I say let their money be wasted.

Donald Trump has acknowledged taiwan as existing, which haz the potential to infuriate China. While i loathe thr fact that we have to listen to a country with a horrendous human rights track record and follow their discretion snd direction in how they deal with another country. But at the same time this is a pretty bad step in terms of international relations.

Its one of those things I'd love to see us say "fuck your games" with, especially to china who constantly ignores our copyrights, hacks our businesses, and blatantly steals from us without a second thought, but i know thers will be consequences for doing so, sadly enough.

She called him ¯\(ツ)/¯ Surprise, nobody who is on the shit end of any agreements wants to stay there. Let China try.

Stein is suing in federal court in both Michigan and Pennsylvania to force recounts. The District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan will hear the Michigan case later today and make a ruling on it. I have no idea who gets precedent if the Michigan Supreme Court orders the recount halted, but a federal district court orders it to go forward.

Basilius said:

…they already paid the costs…

Not in Michigan. The counties will be on the hook for 3-4 million dollars for a completely worthless recount that will accomplish nothing more than stroking Stein's ego.

I'd much rather Willis Road get repaved than know for absolute certain that Clinton won Washtenaw County by 77,852 votes.

Now, if she decides to pay the whole cost? Feel free to recount to your heart's content--just make sure to finish by Dec. 13th so our electoral college members can be seated.

Black Graphic T said:

Donald Trump has acknowledged taiwan as existing,

I did love his retort about no one caring that we send them billions of dollars worth of missiles and guns, but him picking up a phone is the ultimate international crisis instigation. It really shows how delusional China is about the ROC issue--send them as much aid and advanced weapons as you want, sail your carrier battle groups right next to their islands, but don't you dare acknowledge their President exists!

Geopolitics can be really silly sometimes.

Its even stupider when you think of the amount of things china does to the US to damage the economy and undermine US interests.

Russia has the upper hand position in Ukraine. Obama has totally pulled our warships out of the region and severely decreased our military presence, especially as China has also grown more aggressive. Just like when he pulled our troops out of the Middle East, the USA has lost its position of deterrence. Now Russia's military is all over Iraq and Syria, Russia's military is all over Ukraine, China's military is all over the Pacific. They're deterring us, we'd now look like we're escalating the aggression by coming back in to areas we previously defended from aggressive forces which are now occupied by those aggressive forces. Nobel Peace Prize winner Barack Obama's foreign affairs legacy~

District Judge Mark Goldsmith is expected to rule on Stein's suit soon. Meanwhile, the Michigan Court of Appeals has given the Board of Canvassers until Tuesday to respond to Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette's lawsuit.

Considered the "next potential shock wave" after Brexit and Trump, Italy has rejected PM Matteo Renzi's referendum in what was essentially an establishment power grab. As promised, he has conceded and announced his resignation. This implies uncertainty about Italy's future in the EU.

Nancy Pelosi: I don’t think Democrat voters want a new direction.

"House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi said that despite Democrats losing the House, Senate, and almost two-thirds of state houses, the American people don't want a new direction."

Does that site swing a certain direction? Because I can hear that line being delivered very tongue-in-cheek.

Here's the shimmy on the Taiwan:

Since the 79 we don't talk to the President of Taiwan, we do however train their troops, sell them arms, and have extensive diplomatic treaties. But it is very VERY much a big thing that the President of the US does NOT talk to the President of Taiwan.

China, is treating this as if Trump didn't know, because to actually talk to the President of Taiwan is a serious insult to China, which consider Taiwan as a break-away province.

How serious are the Chinese about this?

They just confiscated a ship of armaments from Singapore that arrived in Taiwan,.

http://shanghaiist.com/2016/11/28/hong_kong_singapore_armored_vehicles_seized.php

http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/29/asia/china-singapore-taiwan-troop-carriers/

""I wish to reiterate that the Chinese government consistently and resolutely opposes any form of official exchanges, including military exchanges and cooperation, between countries with which we have diplomatic relations and the Taiwan region," Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Geng Shuang "

So the environment in the South China Sea is ripe for major conflict, and we could be throwing a giant torch into the powder keg. Is it necessary? I don't know, but it certainly highlights the precarious position everyone is in.

Taiwan number 1!

But seriously, I don't think we should be escalating the situation in the south china sea. Even though the US has 3 times the military tonnage in the sea as both Russia and China Combined, conflict should be avoided at all cost.

Trump needs to be very careful moving forward with his presidency. I'd rather not have to deal with a crisis because he stepped on the wrong egg shell.

Its sad really, the chances of a chinese victory in a naval war vs the usa are astronomically small but a well deserved putting in place is impossible due to the nuclear factor.

The 2016 election's not even technically over and Biden's already gearing up for 2020.

The federal judge has ordered the Michigan recount to start immediately. The Michigan GOP has appealed the decision to the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals. Genesee County, home of Flint, will face a $100,000 bill as a result of Stein's effort.

If the recount moves forward, here's how voter intend will be interpreted, per Michigan law:

lisalombs said:

Nancy Pelosi: I don’t think Democrat voters want a new direction.

Who would have ever guessed her being reelected Minority Leader would be an even greater boon for the Republican Party than Trump winning. And I mean that whether or not she was being sarcastic.

Softbank CEO pledges $50 billion in tech investment, 50k new jobs in USA after meeting with Trump.

Looks like treating the country as a business where money can be made is more appealing to investors than treating it as a cesspool full of living livestock who have no value as workers thus need a monthly basic income generated from a 75% corporate income tax.

The Michigan State Court of Appeals has expressed skepticism, citing the Supremacy Clause, about whether they can issue a court order conflicting with the US District Court's one.

Meanwhile, Wayne County, which overwhelmingly voted for Clinton, has revealed there were substantial anomalies with it's ballot audit. Over a third of its precincts reported ballot totals that were different from the numbers the tabulation machines reported.

Daniel Baxter, election director for Detroit, stated old tabulation machines may be to blame:

Many jammed when voters fed ballots into scanners, which can result in erroneous vote counts if ballots are inserted multiple times.

>tfw Stein's recount does reveal severe vote rigging… in Clinton's favor
sides.exe has stopped responding

Does this mean it was entirely possible that trump won the popular vote but that vote rigging made it appear he lost the popular vote?

Way to go Democrats, I don't think any american is craving a new direction. Nope, not at all.

Remember those precincts in Philadelphia where Obama received 100% of the votes back in 2012? Romney was not going to win those precincts, but how does someone not receive a single vote, even if by mistake?

American cities have been the scenes of voting fraud, vote rigging, and voter manipulation going back to the mid-19th century, if not earlier. It's why some people today still have a vague idea of what Tammany Hall and the later Boss Tweed ring were.

This has been going on a long time.

But-But-Voter fraud is just an excuse for white people to hate black people! The left told me so!

Appeals Court: Stein has no standing for Michigan Recount

The Michigan appeals court says Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein has no right to seek a recount in the state because of her fourth-place finish in the Nov. 8 election.

The court ordered the Michigan election board to reject her recount petition. It's unclear how this would affect the recount, which began on Monday.

The appeals court ruled in favor of Republican Donald Trump and the state attorney general, who argued that Stein is not an "aggrieved" candidate under Michigan law because she can't win the state with a recount.

Attorney General Bill Schuette says the recount now "must stop." But Stein's attorney, Mark Brewer, says the recount still isn't over. He pointed to a Monday decision by a federal judge who accelerated the process.

Donald Trump has been named Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2016.

Sad to say, but they kinda got a point on that one. All we heard about this year was Meme Man on pratically all fronts, especially meme-wise.

…a bigger man wouldn't even mention the joke about President-elect Trump's selection being fitting for such an awful year.

I am a very, very small man.

I can't think of another person who garnered more worldwide interest for such an extended period of time even before his election. Given that the last two months of 2016 have made people react in such polarizing ways across the globe with his election, I don't think it's much of a surprise. It'd be a surprise if he didn't win the title.

District Court Judge Goldsmith has suspended the Michigan recount after the Michigan Court of Appeals unanimously ruled Stein was not 'aggrieved' and so lacked the ability to request a recount.

The Board of Canvassers will meet tomorrow to follow the writ of mandamus issued by the Court of Appeals ordering them to end the recount. Stein's appealed that decision to the Michigan Supreme Court, which has a 5-2 Republican majority.

And if anyone's curious, of the ballots recounted so far, Clinton's gained 65 votes on Trump, while Stein's lost 2 votes.

Speaking of wasting millions on frivolous recounts, Wisconsin's recount is 70% complete and Clinton has narrowed Trump's lead by an astounding 82 votes.

That 8 million dollars progressives gave Stein is sure paying dividends. Guess the Democrats midterm election campaigns didn't need any of it. I'm sure they'll do fine without it.

While Hillary has emerged in public to take aim at the 'epidemic' of fake news responsible for her loss, WashPo has updated its list of 'Russian-directed fake news sites' which 'published propaganda to interfere with our democratic process' to inform you that the sources it cited were, in fact, fake after a handful of sites on the list (which is basically just a list of independent conservative pundits) threatened to sue for slander and demanded proof they were publishing fake content.

The liberal government movement growing against "fake news" is now the most legitimate threat presented as a result of this election.

So, basically this whole debacle's been a giant waste of time and money.

Welp, I just lost all my creditably in the Green Party.

The Michigan Supreme Court, in a 3-2 vote along party lines, has denied Stein's appeal of the Court of Appeals' ruling. The two other Republican justices recused themselves from the case due to being on Trump's list of potential SCOTUS nominees.

Stein now can only appeal to SCOTUS, which is a longer shot than getting 37 Trump electors to defect (one currently has). If she does and they accept an emergency appeal a la Bush v Gore, it's likely they'll split 4-4, resulting in the Michigan Supreme Court's ruling standing.

In other words, the Michigan recount is over.

Meanwhile, a federal judge will rule on Monday over Stein's Pennsylvania recount suit. He expressed skepticism in the hearing today, especially regarding if Pennsylvania could meet the the safe harbor deadline on the 13th if a recount was ordered.

Finally, the Wisconsin recount is 88.5% complete and Clinton has a net gain of 49 votes over Trump. Stein and her donors have now paid $71,428.51 for each of those votes.

So what say you guys on this news?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38273933

I'll be worried about Russian election hacking after we figure out why the number of ballots counted did not match the number reported on voter machine print reports in 610 of the 1,680 precincts in Wayne County, MI (Detroit).

I'm fairly certain ward bosses and precincts captains account for far more voter fraud than any foreign government can ever hope to accomplish. But I won't be holding my breath for Obama ordering a "deep dive" of voting fraud in Democratic-run cities.

I think a foreign country making a focused, illegal effort to interfere with the election of such an important position is extremely important no matter how you feel about either of the two major candidates. That would be deeply concerning even if Clinton had won.

I think that will always be more important than people in your own country trying to rig an election.

They don't even say Russian government, they say individuals with connections to Russia's government. Some independent contract nerds found DNC cyber security lacking and blew the whistle on a bunch of shady shit conservative "conspiracy theorists" had been saying for years anyway, I don't consider that a foreign government action to intervene in our election.

I could easily consider multiple hundreds of thousands of dollar "donations" directly from hostile governments to a "charity" run by the acting Secretary of State as foreign actors intervening in our federal government, tho.

Pity the CIA isnt giving any evidence on the matter. Getting "Iraq has WMDs" vibes.

Fair point, given what I wrote.

It was very late when I posted that, and I realize after rereading that I didn't make my thinking clear.

In my opinion, the scale of domestic voter fraud far outweighs any possible hacking by foreign governments. While both are serious issues I think it's not only easier, but far more likely, for someone rig votes in Brooklyn or San Francisco's North Shore rather than for someone in Moscow or Tehran. Therefore, I believe investigating domestic voting problems should be the priority if we're suddenly going to be concerned about voting integrity. Again, this priority is based on scale rather than point of origin or the beneficiary of the fraud/hack.

I will also point to the fact that an actual hacking attempt of Georgia's Election Database is being brushed off as a "rogue employee" while we are instructed to fret about Putin twisting his mustache in the Kremlin.

Maybe the Georgia issue was due to a rogue employee. Maybe it was a secret test of US election security. Maybe foreign governments did try to influence the elections.

Given the preponderance of the evidence we have so far (the Georgia hack attempt, the massive voting discrepancies found in Detroit) I believe the whole Russian hacker story is a distraction from the real issue of domestic voting irregularities which do not require hacking. And I will continue to believe that until we see some actual evidence of Russian hacking beyond the word of the professional liars of the CIA.