Forums / Discussion / Serious Debate

14,092 total conversations in 681 threads

+ New Thread


Eugenics is making a swift comeback

Last posted Mar 11, 2021 at 04:22PM EST. Added Mar 04, 2021 at 09:53PM EST
42 posts from 18 users

This post has been hidden due to low karma.
Click here to show this post.

Mod Edit: Removed "and progressivism is responsible for it" from the title. This is not in the article, nor is it explained in the starting post of the thread, and the thread creator has made no further attempts to do so. This is in spite of the fact the primary conversation of the thread so far has been about the thread title, as opposed to what would assume to be the actual intended topic of the thread. Do not add clickbait to thread titles if you have no intention of attempting to justify/expand upon them, especially in the serious debate section.

Original unedited post is below


I'm sure of many if not most of you would claim to be against eugenics and sterilizing the supposedly mentally and physically unfit. But in practice, modern Western medicine is doing just that. In the UK, doctors gave "do not resuscitate" orders to mentally disabled patients.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/13/new-do-not-resuscitate-orders-imposed-on-covid-19-patients-with-learning-difficulties

Embedded in Western culture is a tendency to commodify human life, valuing people based on extrinsic abilities and appearances. Thus, the disabled are not deemed as valuable as the non-disabled.

Last edited Mar 05, 2021 at 07:12PM EST
This post has been hidden due to low karma.
Click here to show this post.

I don't support just throwing out dnrs to people with disabilities

but there is nothing morally wrong with preventing bad genes from being passed on through sterilization and regulation on who's allowed to reproduce

and a person's value is what they contribute to society, that's simply how it is

what is wrong is treating someone badly for being born disabled

Wow what a shitty take on the initial article. The UK is probably one of the most conservative countries out there in Europe (speaking about the continent, obviously), and while you make it sound like everybody there is okay with it, the full title of the article explicitely states it's a controversial topic:

Fury at ‘do not resuscitate’ notices given to Covid patients with learning disabilities

and moreover, after going through the full article, this is not the first time this debate comes up in the media since it was already highlighted by the ministers' decision to not include some people with disabilities among the first people to get the vaccine even though they are at risk:

DNACPRs are usually made for people who are too frail to benefit from CPR, but Mencap said some seem to have been issued for people simply because they had a learning disability. The CQC is due to publish a report on the practice within weeks.

The disclosure comes as campaigners put growing pressure on ministers to reconsider a decision not to give people with learning disabilities priority for vaccinations. There is growing evidence that even those with a mild disability are more likely to die if they contract the coronavirus.

Although some people with learning disabilities such as Down’s syndrome were in one of four groups set by the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) which the government promised would be offered the vaccine by tomorrow, many were classified lower categories of need and are still waiting.

I mean, this comes from a mostly-conservative government that was set up after the Conservative Party won the last election with a landslide. How do you manage to slap progressism in all that, beyond a vague ideological reason ?

So you see DNR orders applied to the disabled by a government currently run by self-styled conservatives, and think progressivism, a school of thought that would be concerned with this exact thing happening, is somehow responsible

This post has been hidden due to low karma.
Click here to show this post.

@Cheeky Mountain Parrot

Righ wing nuts like OP are osbesse with "progressist/liberal/lefist/communist/you know the drill" and distord ANY subject so they can openly show their hate and frustration.

Individual wrote:

@Cheeky Mountain Parrot

Righ wing nuts like OP are osbesse with "progressist/liberal/lefist/communist/you know the drill" and distord ANY subject so they can openly show their hate and frustration.

call me when you learn basic spelling

Individual wrote:

@Cheeky Mountain Parrot

Righ wing nuts like OP are osbesse with "progressist/liberal/lefist/communist/you know the drill" and distord ANY subject so they can openly show their hate and frustration.

So just like you

This post has been hidden due to low karma.
Click here to show this post.

@Griff this a serious thread here.

You can take you projection and hypocrisie outside in some obscure contain board and let,the sane people comment how Jacobite is just an edgy prick.

Individual wrote:

@Griff this a serious thread here.

You can take you projection and hypocrisie outside in some obscure contain board and let,the sane people comment how Jacobite is just an edgy prick.

Lol hypocrisie

Oh give me a break sonny 90% of your posts and comments here are you bitching about "far-right" "anti-sjws" and other BS as well as bitching about how this site is an "echo-chamber" for not bending over to your type of partisan extremist nonsense

One only needs to dig through your buried posts and comments to know that

Kenetic Kups wrote:

I don't support just throwing out dnrs to people with disabilities

but there is nothing morally wrong with preventing bad genes from being passed on through sterilization and regulation on who's allowed to reproduce

and a person's value is what they contribute to society, that's simply how it is

what is wrong is treating someone badly for being born disabled

what the actual fuck is wrong with you

Kenetic Kups wrote:

I don't support just throwing out dnrs to people with disabilities

but there is nothing morally wrong with preventing bad genes from being passed on through sterilization and regulation on who's allowed to reproduce

and a person's value is what they contribute to society, that's simply how it is

what is wrong is treating someone badly for being born disabled

If one finds a way of contributing to society despite their disabilities then it absolutely would be wrong to visit mistreatment upon him for it.

Kenetic Kups wrote:

"people shouldn't have to be born into a life of suffering"
"UR EVIL!"
every time

Life is pain, anyone who says differently is selling something.

Kenetic Kups wrote:

"people shouldn't have to be born into a life of suffering"
"UR EVIL!"
every time

It's amazing how long you've been here and I've never once seen you type out a coherent argument or decent point. Just complaints and strawmans for the past couple years.

Kenetic Kups wrote:

"people shouldn't have to be born into a life of suffering"
"UR EVIL!"
every time

I'm pretty sure you're missing out on the fact that people aren't keen on the idea of classifying certain people as unwarranted to be born to begin with.
Likewise, this isn't a very good way of handling people disagreeing with you.

Wrazid wrote:

If one finds a way of contributing to society despite their disabilities then it absolutely would be wrong to visit mistreatment upon him for it.

?
it's wrong to treat someone badly for having a disability in the first placee

This post has been hidden due to low karma.
Click here to show this post.

Shill4tallWomen wrote:

I'm pretty sure you're missing out on the fact that people aren't keen on the idea of classifying certain people as unwarranted to be born to begin with.
Likewise, this isn't a very good way of handling people disagreeing with you.

That's because people let their instincts of wanting more humans to get in the way of thinking
I don't want other people to have to suffer through life when they don't need to in the first place

and it's a pretty good summary of the general reaction, I've only seen like one person on here ever attempt an actual debate about it

This post has been hidden due to low karma.
Click here to show this post.

Steven The Pirate wrote:

It's amazing how long you've been here and I've never once seen you type out a coherent argument or decent point. Just complaints and strawmans for the past couple years.

Does it get lonely up there?

Kenetic Kups wrote:

That's because people let their instincts of wanting more humans to get in the way of thinking
I don't want other people to have to suffer through life when they don't need to in the first place

and it's a pretty good summary of the general reaction, I've only seen like one person on here ever attempt an actual debate about it

Given that needless suffering is an inescapable part of life, this can apply to anyone, not just those born with disabilities. Though it's possible to reduce it, preventing people who have more suffering from living is just avoiding the issue.
If the problem is overpopulation, then good education regarding birth is effective. It's one of the reasons why richer countries have lower birthrates.

Kenetic Kups wrote:

"people shouldn't have to be born into a life of suffering"
"UR EVIL!"
every time

"people shouldn't have to be born into a life of suffering" is not the same as "sterilize the disabled against their will so they can't reproduce" you fucking moron

people shout "ur evil" because it's

fucking evil

not to mention, where does that shit end? do you stop people with autism from reproducing because of the risk that it could get passed onto their kids? what about sterilizing the poor, considering that low income households are categorically proven to lead to a higher risk of mental illness-it's objectively preventing someone from being 'born into a life of suffering'

and yes you'll say 'but no, money is different than genes' but if you honestly think about what you're preaching being born deaf or with some other disabilities is about as much of a life of suffering as being born in a broken household with no financial security and exposed to potential negative influences like drugs, et cetera-that kind of shit churns out people with cluster-B personality disorders

if you're going to start sterilizing people forcibly so that they 'can't bring people into a life of suffering' where, exactly, do you draw the line? Purely genetics? What about sterilizing people who literally just are completely incapable of being parents and raising their children, either due to personality traits or due to completely unstable situations like financial instability or drugs or so forth?

All of that shit is fucked up. You can't forcibly control someone's right to their own body or their right to reproduce. You can offer them the ADVICE that their baby will be born disabled and crippled, and that aborting it might be the kinder option, but you can't forcibly sterilize people

Which is what you're preaching, and that's fucked up and evil

Kenetic Kups wrote:

I don't support just throwing out dnrs to people with disabilities

but there is nothing morally wrong with preventing bad genes from being passed on through sterilization and regulation on who's allowed to reproduce

and a person's value is what they contribute to society, that's simply how it is

what is wrong is treating someone badly for being born disabled

Kenetic Kups wrote:

That's because people let their instincts of wanting more humans to get in the way of thinking
I don't want other people to have to suffer through life when they don't need to in the first place

and it's a pretty good summary of the general reaction, I've only seen like one person on here ever attempt an actual debate about it

Like, I know you're going to kneejerk me and shout 'no i'm just talking about genes, you can't just sterilize someone for bad economic income that's something completely different' but…it's not. It's really not beyond the REASON for the suffering.

If your objective is to ensure that nobody is born into a life of suffering, and your method of action is sterilization, then by what logical process do you limit yourself to JUST genetics? People with drug or alcohol addictions or people who are in low income households etc are going to lead to a life of suffering as well.

Hell, quite honestly, it's more likely you can be born blind or mute and still live happily or be born mentally deficient and still live happily than you can be born into a dysfunctional, low-income household and be happy and live happily.

That's not even addressing what a gross infringement of human rights it would be. Because someone's not genetically optimum, that someone would be born with a disability, it's the 'kinder option' to spare now-nonexistent people from a 'life of suffering' by forcibly denying someone else their own right to have children and raise a family? Even if they're otherwise capable parents-for the crime of being born disabled, they're not allowed to have kids?

Because that's the 'kinder option'?

It's not kind. It's actively malevolent-it's the kind of 'greater good' shit that people will use to justify stripping rights away all the time. It's for the benefit of…someone. Now-nonexistent children, to have never been born at all rather than being born and living unhappily. It's imposing your own moral values and systems-that you would rather be DEAD than born disabled-onto someone who never even gets the chance to object to that in the first place, AND onto another, living, breathing human being who has values and opinions of their own.

For what? The betterment of society? Doing a kindness to people who can now never be consulted for their opinion because you think they would be happier to be dead than to live with a disability?

It staggers the mind how absolutely fucked up it is, and how absolutely moronic you are for not thinking it out.

Not to mention, of course-exactly where does that authority and power end? If you can forcibly sterilize people against their will, that's an incredible amount of power handed to the state-and, of course, it's a precedent now set. The same reasoning you fucking morons use any time someone gets banned for shouting nigger on an internet forum about how it's 'massive government overreach' and 'control of free speech' applies here too-you've given the government the power to sterilize people and control their right to reproduce, their right to their own bodies, their own lives. Now what? What's the check or balance on this?

How do you prevent that from growing into restricting it to people of only arbitrarily defined 'better' genes? How do you prevent it from becoming a political tool, preventing minorities or ethnic groups that don't align with your political interests from reproducing? How do you prevent the inevitable bureaucratic mishaps where someone is sterilized against their will when they shouldn't have been?

It's an absolute infringement on human rights.

It's not some 'instinct of wanting more humans', you absolute peabrained wad of pepperjack dickcheese. People are revolted at the insinuation for all of the above and more-it's a gross violation of human rights and total control of someone else's body. That you simplify it to 'instinct' so that you can stand on your moral high horse and piss down on everyone else as unintelligent instinctual people who have never given the idea any consideration because they're all horny retards who want 'more people' as compared to your oh-so-compassionate and kind proposition of forcible sterilization so that 'people aren't born into a life of suffering' is evidence enough that you are the one who has never given this idea any fucking thought whatsoever.

Of course people won't attempt an actual debate on it with the likes of you. Of course people won't attempt an actual debate on it at all. It's such an absolutely, pants-on-head, instantly moronic and abhorrent idea to ANYONE with a fucking brain cell that there's basically no reason to even TRY to engage with it in the first place. It's like listening to an antivax mom argue about how it's her right to smear human shit on her own infant's face to protect her against Bill Gates' 5G jewish space laser beams or whatever the fuck-there's no POINT even attempting to 'argue' or 'debate' with an idea that fucking idiotic beyond the initial response of 'what the FUCK is wrong with you'.

And here you are, taking that in evidence that the reason people are unwilling to debate it is because they're closed-minded, rather than that you are a FUCKING IDIOT.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa wrote:

[snip]

Hard agree. I don't know how anyone could ever ethically justify eugenics as a greater good.

I'm a utilitarian. I believe in the greatest good for the greatest population. Eugenics and forced sterilization will never be considered a good, for it is an indefensible ethical violation to take away the inalienable human rights of other sentient life and will only lead to strife, no matter WHAT the pretense. Someone can possess birth defects, dispositions towards disease, or other disorders caused by genetics, and still live a happy and fulfilling life that improves their local community. To say this always leads to a "life of suffering" is fucking ridiculous.

You can't build the greatest good for the greatest population if you fail to take into account ethics.

Last edited Mar 10, 2021 at 10:55AM EST

Chewybunny wrote:

psst. Progressives started the eugenics movement in the early 20th century.

They did. But in OP's case it's the UK government trying to save a buck by being evil fucks, rather than ideological motive

Kenetic Kups wrote:

I don't support just throwing out dnrs to people with disabilities

but there is nothing morally wrong with preventing bad genes from being passed on through sterilization and regulation on who's allowed to reproduce

and a person's value is what they contribute to society, that's simply how it is

what is wrong is treating someone badly for being born disabled

And what if the disabled person wants to have a child they made? Would they have the right to that or will their government say 'no' and they're forced to be sterilized?

You can spin it as good all you want, but telling a person they can't have a baby because they were born disabled is treating them as inferior to you.

Lokito wrote:

And what if the disabled person wants to have a child they made? Would they have the right to that or will their government say 'no' and they're forced to be sterilized?

You can spin it as good all you want, but telling a person they can't have a baby because they were born disabled is treating them as inferior to you.

No, it's telling them they can't force another person to suffer, if a disabled person wants to raise a child there's always thousands of children to be adopted

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa wrote:

Like, I know you're going to kneejerk me and shout 'no i'm just talking about genes, you can't just sterilize someone for bad economic income that's something completely different' but…it's not. It's really not beyond the REASON for the suffering.

If your objective is to ensure that nobody is born into a life of suffering, and your method of action is sterilization, then by what logical process do you limit yourself to JUST genetics? People with drug or alcohol addictions or people who are in low income households etc are going to lead to a life of suffering as well.

Hell, quite honestly, it's more likely you can be born blind or mute and still live happily or be born mentally deficient and still live happily than you can be born into a dysfunctional, low-income household and be happy and live happily.

That's not even addressing what a gross infringement of human rights it would be. Because someone's not genetically optimum, that someone would be born with a disability, it's the 'kinder option' to spare now-nonexistent people from a 'life of suffering' by forcibly denying someone else their own right to have children and raise a family? Even if they're otherwise capable parents-for the crime of being born disabled, they're not allowed to have kids?

Because that's the 'kinder option'?

It's not kind. It's actively malevolent-it's the kind of 'greater good' shit that people will use to justify stripping rights away all the time. It's for the benefit of…someone. Now-nonexistent children, to have never been born at all rather than being born and living unhappily. It's imposing your own moral values and systems-that you would rather be DEAD than born disabled-onto someone who never even gets the chance to object to that in the first place, AND onto another, living, breathing human being who has values and opinions of their own.

For what? The betterment of society? Doing a kindness to people who can now never be consulted for their opinion because you think they would be happier to be dead than to live with a disability?

It staggers the mind how absolutely fucked up it is, and how absolutely moronic you are for not thinking it out.

Not to mention, of course-exactly where does that authority and power end? If you can forcibly sterilize people against their will, that's an incredible amount of power handed to the state-and, of course, it's a precedent now set. The same reasoning you fucking morons use any time someone gets banned for shouting nigger on an internet forum about how it's 'massive government overreach' and 'control of free speech' applies here too-you've given the government the power to sterilize people and control their right to reproduce, their right to their own bodies, their own lives. Now what? What's the check or balance on this?

How do you prevent that from growing into restricting it to people of only arbitrarily defined 'better' genes? How do you prevent it from becoming a political tool, preventing minorities or ethnic groups that don't align with your political interests from reproducing? How do you prevent the inevitable bureaucratic mishaps where someone is sterilized against their will when they shouldn't have been?

It's an absolute infringement on human rights.

It's not some 'instinct of wanting more humans', you absolute peabrained wad of pepperjack dickcheese. People are revolted at the insinuation for all of the above and more-it's a gross violation of human rights and total control of someone else's body. That you simplify it to 'instinct' so that you can stand on your moral high horse and piss down on everyone else as unintelligent instinctual people who have never given the idea any consideration because they're all horny retards who want 'more people' as compared to your oh-so-compassionate and kind proposition of forcible sterilization so that 'people aren't born into a life of suffering' is evidence enough that you are the one who has never given this idea any fucking thought whatsoever.

Of course people won't attempt an actual debate on it with the likes of you. Of course people won't attempt an actual debate on it at all. It's such an absolutely, pants-on-head, instantly moronic and abhorrent idea to ANYONE with a fucking brain cell that there's basically no reason to even TRY to engage with it in the first place. It's like listening to an antivax mom argue about how it's her right to smear human shit on her own infant's face to protect her against Bill Gates' 5G jewish space laser beams or whatever the fuck-there's no POINT even attempting to 'argue' or 'debate' with an idea that fucking idiotic beyond the initial response of 'what the FUCK is wrong with you'.

And here you are, taking that in evidence that the reason people are unwilling to debate it is because they're closed-minded, rather than that you are a FUCKING IDIOT.

Amidst your insults you do bring up a few good points
yes there is always a risk of degenerate nutcases trying to use something like eugenics to inact their delusional ideas, but really that's the case with any form of power over others

"Not to mention, of course-exactly where does that authority and power end? If you can forcibly sterilize people against their will, that's an incredible amount of power handed to the state-and, of course, it's a precedent now set. The same reasoning you fucking morons use any time someone gets banned for shouting nigger on an internet forum about how it's 'massive government overreach' and 'control of free speech' applies here too-you've given the government the power to sterilize people and control their right to reproduce, their right to their own bodies, their own lives. Now what? What's the check or balance on this?"

the fuck are you talking about here?
I'm openly authoritarian, I think you have me confused with someone else

And you consider death to be the end all be all of what's evil
that really seems to be where your entire argument stems from

I consider that to be irrational, as suffering is far worse than non existence

Talkie Toaster wrote:

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa wrote:

[snip]

Hard agree. I don't know how anyone could ever ethically justify eugenics as a greater good.

I'm a utilitarian. I believe in the greatest good for the greatest population. Eugenics and forced sterilization will never be considered a good, for it is an indefensible ethical violation to take away the inalienable human rights of other sentient life and will only lead to strife, no matter WHAT the pretense. Someone can possess birth defects, dispositions towards disease, or other disorders caused by genetics, and still live a happy and fulfilling life that improves their local community. To say this always leads to a "life of suffering" is fucking ridiculous.

You can't build the greatest good for the greatest population if you fail to take into account ethics.

I don't consider it an ethical violation
yes someone can live a good life in spite of having disorders, and if they want too, then they should be supported, but they should not be able to force another to go through them

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa wrote:

"people shouldn't have to be born into a life of suffering" is not the same as "sterilize the disabled against their will so they can't reproduce" you fucking moron

people shout "ur evil" because it's

fucking evil

not to mention, where does that shit end? do you stop people with autism from reproducing because of the risk that it could get passed onto their kids? what about sterilizing the poor, considering that low income households are categorically proven to lead to a higher risk of mental illness-it's objectively preventing someone from being 'born into a life of suffering'

and yes you'll say 'but no, money is different than genes' but if you honestly think about what you're preaching being born deaf or with some other disabilities is about as much of a life of suffering as being born in a broken household with no financial security and exposed to potential negative influences like drugs, et cetera-that kind of shit churns out people with cluster-B personality disorders

if you're going to start sterilizing people forcibly so that they 'can't bring people into a life of suffering' where, exactly, do you draw the line? Purely genetics? What about sterilizing people who literally just are completely incapable of being parents and raising their children, either due to personality traits or due to completely unstable situations like financial instability or drugs or so forth?

All of that shit is fucked up. You can't forcibly control someone's right to their own body or their right to reproduce. You can offer them the ADVICE that their baby will be born disabled and crippled, and that aborting it might be the kinder option, but you can't forcibly sterilize people

Which is what you're preaching, and that's fucked up and evil

And that's why background checks and training should be required as well to have children, and if someone is otherwise capable then they should receive enough government assistance to raise their child well

And I disagree, it doesn't matter what anyone wants, what matters is what's good for them
same reason I'm for banning alcohol and tobacco and other narcotics
like your other example, a crazy person wants to smear their child in shit because of jewish space lasers, should they be able to ?
of course not
they shouldn't even be allowed near children, but by your reasoning that's evil

Kenetic Kups wrote:

I don't consider it an ethical violation
yes someone can live a good life in spite of having disorders, and if they want too, then they should be supported, but they should not be able to force another to go through them

So you'll inflict suffering onto another person as a "just in case"?

Purely because you think that is what's good for them and everyone else?

And you mentioned they should be supported "if they want too" live a good life, but disregard a person wanting to have their own children if they wanted to… Because you seem to know better?

Menthol wrote:

So you'll inflict suffering onto another person as a "just in case"?

Purely because you think that is what's good for them and everyone else?

And you mentioned they should be supported "if they want too" live a good life, but disregard a person wanting to have their own children if they wanted to… Because you seem to know better?

"And you mentioned they should be supported "if they want too" live a good life, but disregard a person wanting to have their own children if they wanted to… Because you seem to know better?"
because it's not you, a child is another person that you are forcing to exist

Let's explain it another way:

Your country now enforces what you've been talking about
I classify you as mentally deranged
You are now considered "disabled" by the system
The government sterilize you
Everyone in the country looks down at you as if you were unwanted and you're given fewer opportunities to live a good life due to discrimination by others

You now live a worse life due to the very thing you said would make things better

Do you see how this is a problem?

Who gets the final say on what is classified as "disabled"?
How would treating others as if they were lesser make things better for them?
What stops you from going through this?

Menthol wrote:

Let's explain it another way:

Your country now enforces what you've been talking about
I classify you as mentally deranged
You are now considered "disabled" by the system
The government sterilize you
Everyone in the country looks down at you as if you were unwanted and you're given fewer opportunities to live a good life due to discrimination by others

You now live a worse life due to the very thing you said would make things better

Do you see how this is a problem?

Who gets the final say on what is classified as "disabled"?
How would treating others as if they were lesser make things better for them?
What stops you from going through this?

I am disabled, I have an axiaty disorder and inherited asthma, if there was a risk of me reproducing I’d get sterilized

Other than the serilization part what you’ve described is something I’m completely against, and would be illegal under my ststem

“who gets the final say”, scientists

“How would treating others as if they were lesser make things better for them?“
I’ve explicitly stated that people shouldn’t be treated badly for disabilities, sterilization should be treated like any other medical procedure

scientists

Scientists can be bribed or alter results
Cigarettes were once ‘physician’ tested, approved

Wakefield’s article linking MMR vaccine and autism was fraudulent

I am disabled

Then you already know what it's like when people look down on you as if you were broken, as if there was something inherantly wrong with you. But even in your example of asthma, you're still able to live a decent life and do things that others can

Just because you have a condition that makes you slightly less capable, it doesn't mean you are so incapable that you have to be removed from the gene pool

Even if your child was disabled it doesn't stop them from doing great things in their life for the betterment of everyone

Disabled people are already at a disadvantage in their career prospects without the condemnation of being sterilised

How would removing your ability to reproduce, against your own will, make you feel better? What you suggest would make discrimination more rampant than what it currently is

1 in 5 infertile women have directly experienced discrimination or prejudice tied to their infertility

Everything you have suggested so far would make anyone hit by this new rule to live a worse life than what they currently live through. The best option is to not give people shit for things that are out of their control, and give them the same opportunities as everyone else. Not just for the good of everyone around them, but also for the person themself

Last edited Mar 11, 2021 at 12:52PM EST

Kenetic Kups wrote:

No, it's telling them they can't force another person to suffer, if a disabled person wants to raise a child there's always thousands of children to be adopted

And how do we determine someone will suffer more than enjoy life before they're even born? We have to remember that disabled people who do want their own baby inherently believe that life is worth living despite their own disability. Besides, that logic of 'just adopt a child' means that anyone who is making a baby when you could 'just adopt' are morally wrong since their 'forcing' a baby into existence despite the hardships everyone will face in life; disabled or not

Kenetic Kups wrote:

Amidst your insults you do bring up a few good points
yes there is always a risk of degenerate nutcases trying to use something like eugenics to inact their delusional ideas, but really that's the case with any form of power over others

"Not to mention, of course-exactly where does that authority and power end? If you can forcibly sterilize people against their will, that's an incredible amount of power handed to the state-and, of course, it's a precedent now set. The same reasoning you fucking morons use any time someone gets banned for shouting nigger on an internet forum about how it's 'massive government overreach' and 'control of free speech' applies here too-you've given the government the power to sterilize people and control their right to reproduce, their right to their own bodies, their own lives. Now what? What's the check or balance on this?"

the fuck are you talking about here?
I'm openly authoritarian, I think you have me confused with someone else

And you consider death to be the end all be all of what's evil
that really seems to be where your entire argument stems from

I consider that to be irrational, as suffering is far worse than non existence

if suffering is worse than non existence, you advocate for suicide, and that's quite frankly ridiculous

there is no GUARANTEE someone's going to suffer just because they're born with a disability

like, look, if someone with butterfly skin disease insists on having a kid despite the fact that said kid will more than likely die in four years, obviously you should draw the line there, but that is such a ridiculous edge case and entirely unlikely that it's not worth the multitude of other problems that would arise from implementing a system of laws to prevent that from happening and the violation of human rights when attention is better spent attempting to alleviate suffering for people with disabilities

if you're born blind, deaf, or mentally deficient, life can still be good for you, and preventing someone from having kids just because they're blind or deaf etc and their kids will also be blind and deaf is inherently a violation of human rights and also rather presumptive-i know more than a few blind people who are still very happy despite being blind and don't actually care all that much

so what? what, exactly, do you advocate for with eugenics? preventing people below a set IQ from reproducing? preventing the perfectly stable and normal blind or deaf from reproducing, via forcible sterilization against their will? i mean, fuck sake, circumcision is already fucked up-going a mile further and sterilizing is even more ridiculous

if you're attempting to alleviate suffering poverty is a greater guarantee of suffering than disability-do you sterilize the poor so they can't reproduce?

et cetera

it's not worth consideration in the slightest

Skeletor-sm

This thread is closed to new posts.

Old threads normally auto-close after 30 days of inactivity.

Why don't you start a new thread instead?

Word Up! You must login or signup first!