6,927 total conversations in 573 threads
Last posted
Apr 19, 2021 at 11:41PM EDT.
Added
Apr 16, 2021 at 10:13PM EDT
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Staff and Don can we please have higher standards for moderators
the current moderators constantly hostile towards the userbase, arbitrarily lock entries, and ignore actual issues
Hey there, always nice to see users taking more interest in the site's management.
We're well aware of a couple issues that the userbase is vocal about. Unfortunately, these aren't really up to the mods, and require staff to act directly. Some examples include:
The moderation team is doing its best to keep spam accounts, misplaced/inappropriate content, and advertising at bay while maintaining entries, but I have to emphasize that this is a volunteer effort. There is no money or staff support invested in moderating KYM – hence why mods have so little control over the site at large.
If you have any more specific feedback on how the moderators can do a better job keeping KYM stable and functional, please let us know.
>, but I have to emphasize that this is a volunteer effort. There is no money or staff support invested in moderating KYM
Ahem, I am obligated to respond with this per internet law
Doeoeod wrote:
Hey there, always nice to see users taking more interest in the site's management.
We're well aware of a couple issues that the userbase is vocal about. Unfortunately, these aren't really up to the mods, and require staff to act directly. Some examples include:
- Editing comments
- User notifications
- The UI redesign (we hate it too)
- "Vote-bombing"/alting/sockpuppet accounts
- Adbots
- The trending bar/gallery display issue
- Advertisements covering site content
The moderation team is doing its best to keep spam accounts, misplaced/inappropriate content, and advertising at bay while maintaining entries, but I have to emphasize that this is a volunteer effort. There is no money or staff support invested in moderating KYM – hence why mods have so little control over the site at large.
If you have any more specific feedback on how the moderators can do a better job keeping KYM stable and functional, please let us know.
I wanna emphasize I really respect what you're doing before I say this.
And really, you seem like a good mod, and you've given me good feedback at least.
But mods don't moderate for free -they are paid in power. Though, that's kinda why moderators on the Internet tend to be bad I think, since they aren't paid and are paid in power it's natural they don't use it well.
Not saying you do that of course! But it's important to keep that in mind.
You seem to imply mods have very little control over the website at large…
Why don't you just fucking unionize and tell the admins what you want? It's not hard and you're not paid so no one can stop you if enough of you do it. Negotiate or something, threaten to not do something if you don't at least get X amount of a demand met or something, really, they can't afford to lose you all can they?
Nothing personal against the admins just so far not really seeing any of them talk here.
Crispy Cream said:
Why don't you just fucking unionize and tell the admins what you want? It's not hard and you're not paid so no one can stop you if enough of you do it. Negotiate or something, threaten to not do something if you don't at least get X amount of a demand met or something, really, they can't afford to lose you all can they?
We fucking wish I can't speak for the entire mod team here, but it's pretty well-accepted that moderators are both:
1) Not vital to the site as a whole
2) Expendable as all hell
KYM is entirely ad revenue-based; ownership doesn't hand down some cash so Don can make more meme editorials, nor does the site stand to gain anything by making better, more informative entries or having a perfect record of documentation. From a purely business perspective, KnowYourMeme is a media outlet and not an information resource. This means that the money will go first and foremost to things that bring it more ad revenue – and this is where you'll see admins the most. As such, they're most active doing the following:
The KYM userbase may not care much for the frontpage, but it's keeps the clicks coming. Everything else that wouldn't jeopardize KYM's revenue comes second. This means the Karma system, ad bots, comments, galleries, and so on. Mods have 0 control over this, and therefore no meaningful control over the site except the entries (which are mostly written by administration anyways). If we "unionized", Don would send us all out the door and get an intern to spellcheck his entries instead.
The other reason not much seems to get done by administration, while mods seem to do a lot that amounts to very little, is that the administration itself is kinda understaffed. Hiring power comes and goes as KYM changes hands (from Rocketboom to Cheez to Literally) but still only has between 0 or 1 non-writers at any point. The administration does want these features – site usability is more important to them than to us – but not at the expense of everything else. Remember James? He was pretty much the only backend for 5+ years at KYM, and was solely responsible for the following and more:
Until such a time that the hardcore KYM userbase is more profitable than random people clicking our links from Google and Twitter, the community – and how it is moderated – will be second priority.
Doeoeod wrote:
Crispy Cream said:
Why don't you just fucking unionize and tell the admins what you want? It's not hard and you're not paid so no one can stop you if enough of you do it. Negotiate or something, threaten to not do something if you don't at least get X amount of a demand met or something, really, they can't afford to lose you all can they?
We fucking wishI can't speak for the entire mod team here, but it's pretty well-accepted that moderators are both:
1) Not vital to the site as a whole
2) Expendable as all hellKYM is entirely ad revenue-based; ownership doesn't hand down some cash so Don can make more meme editorials, nor does the site stand to gain anything by making better, more informative entries or having a perfect record of documentation. From a purely business perspective, KnowYourMeme is a media outlet and not an information resource. This means that the money will go first and foremost to things that bring it more ad revenue – and this is where you'll see admins the most. As such, they're most active doing the following:
- Editorials, blog-like posts, articles, and all the other "content" on the frontpage.
- Interviews and other joint ventures that boost publicity.
- Updates to the site's structure, appearance, or mobile usability.
The KYM userbase may not care much for the frontpage, but it's keeps the clicks coming. Everything else that wouldn't jeopardize KYM's revenue comes second. This means the Karma system, ad bots, comments, galleries, and so on. Mods have 0 control over this, and therefore no meaningful control over the site except the entries (which are mostly written by administration anyways). If we "unionized", Don would send us all out the door and get an intern to spellcheck his entries instead.
The other reason not much seems to get done by administration, while mods seem to do a lot that amounts to very little, is that the administration itself is kinda understaffed. Hiring power comes and goes as KYM changes hands (from Rocketboom to Cheez to Literally) but still only has between 0 or 1 non-writers at any point. The administration does want these features – site usability is more important to them than to us – but not at the expense of everything else. Remember James? He was pretty much the only backend for 5+ years at KYM, and was solely responsible for the following and more:
- IP bans
- Fixing broken site content (of which there are many)
- Managing server load
- Developing any and every new feature (think April fools, the hide ponies button, off-site integrations, the karma system)
Until such a time that the hardcore KYM userbase is more profitable than random people clicking our links from Google and Twitter, the community – and how it is moderated – will be second priority.
I understand, but don't underestimate your power it might have more value than you realize! Thanks for the response.
Yeah, the handling of the "Shortstack" entry was pretty abysmal. Very disappointed by the mods.
TerribleTrike wrote:
Yeah, the handling of the "Shortstack" entry was pretty abysmal. Very disappointed by the mods.
I'm not, this is how they've acted for the last few years
It would probably help if the mods didn't go straight to shitting on the user base and circlejerking.
Sir Riley wrote:
It would probably help if the mods didn't go straight to shitting on the user base and circlejerking.
Therein lies the source of the issue, a site shouldn't have mods that hate the userbase
WTF
I just looked at Sir Riley's account a few hours ago and it was 7 years old and now it's banned after criticizing the mods here?
I request some baseline receipts here if a mod would be so transparent.
Crispy Cream wrote:
WTF
I just looked at Sir Riley's account a few hours ago and it was 7 years old and now it's banned after criticizing the mods here?
I request some baseline receipts here if a mod would be so transparent.
Given that MothMan has had multiple alts banned for circumventing his main account's suspension recently, I'd say Sir Riley was just another sneaky (but failed) attempt at avoiding punishment.
Carrie Enright wrote:
Given that MothMan has had multiple alts banned for circumventing his main account's suspension recently, I'd say Sir Riley was just another sneaky (but failed) attempt at avoiding punishment.
Really? I though mothman was newer
You guys want me to be an entry mod? I can handle some things when it matters in an unbiased manner but I also don’t commitment though and I get busy. Also I won’t Deadpool your article because I don’t like it
Smol Nozomi wrote:
You guys want me to be an entry mod? I can handle some things when it matters in an unbiased manner but I also don’t commitment though and I get busy. Also I won’t Deadpool your article because I don’t like it
Sounds like an improvement really.
Crispy Cream said:
I request some baseline receipts here if a mod would be so transparent.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not a jannie 1984 situation. Sir Riley/Diantha/Absol are assumed to be alts of Lucky Absol and were banned for using these accounts to manipulate votes – i.e "sockpuppet" accounts. The ban is, like nearly all account punishments, fully appealable. He also gets to keep his main account because we're nice that way.
The decision to ban alt accounts is not taken lightly, because there's always the chance we're banning some unassuming user's account based on circumstantial evidence. We've had users IP-banned because of the actions of their roommates, for example. In the interest of """transparency""", I'll give you the rundown:
1. IP addresses
Accounts that match IP addresses are already pretty suspect, but this happens semi-regularly. VPN nodes, public networks, shared spaces (think campus dorms, apartments, and so on) all show up on your account, so users are bound to have logged into the same space as someone else. I know for a fact someone else on KYM has logged in from my local McDonald's, for example. The issue here is that all the accounts have the exact same IPv4 address and only this address – despite 7 years of activity each on some. This is a pretty solid indication of alt usage on its own, unless 5+ different users happened to move into the same home. It's also why we tend to see users accusing each other of likebotting as crying wolf – either there's a VPN involved, or we would have already seen it.
2. Activity period
The creation date of the accounts line up with periods of activity from the main account, and tend to fall within short clusters. 3 accounts being made 7 years ago within a month of each other, then falling under long periods of inactivity that line up with the main account isn't likely to be a coincidence, and it's not surprising that while the main account posted in the Shortstacks entry, the alts posted in its resulting threads. Alt accounts tend to become active when they're needed, and are hence easiest to pick up during these bursts of activity. Users getting flustered and using multiple accounts to enforce an opinion falls into that category.
3. Account behavior
Many accounts sharing an IP is sus. Many accounts sharing an IP who have the same favourite pokemon is downright incriminating. Matching names, similar uploads, similar comments, and whatever the fuck this is are more than circumstantial evidence. We also understand that users a part of certain KYM "cliques" have similar patterns, and the pseudo-Pokemon-RP crowd loves making accounts.
Sorry to the user in question if having your laundry aired like this is uncomfortable, but it's better than being called a tyrant for following the rules. The mod team is not obligated to reveal the details of another user's suspensions/bans, and I'm only doing this because the userbase seems to think we're doing this to quell dissent. If the user in question is not, in fact, the owner of the accounts, this post will obviously be removed.
Doeoeod wrote:
Crispy Cream said:
I request some baseline receipts here if a mod would be so transparent.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not a jannie 1984 situation. Sir Riley/Diantha/Absol are assumed to be alts of Lucky Absol and were banned for using these accounts to manipulate votes – i.e "sockpuppet" accounts. The ban is, like nearly all account punishments, fully appealable. He also gets to keep his main account because we're nice that way.
The decision to ban alt accounts is not taken lightly, because there's always the chance we're banning some unassuming user's account based on circumstantial evidence. We've had users IP-banned because of the actions of their roommates, for example. In the interest of """transparency""", I'll give you the rundown:
1. IP addresses
Accounts that match IP addresses are already pretty suspect, but this happens semi-regularly. VPN nodes, public networks, shared spaces (think campus dorms, apartments, and so on) all show up on your account, so users are bound to have logged into the same space as someone else. I know for a fact someone else on KYM has logged in from my local McDonald's, for example. The issue here is that all the accounts have the exact same IPv4 address and only this address – despite 7 years of activity each on some. This is a pretty solid indication of alt usage on its own, unless 5+ different users happened to move into the same home. It's also why we tend to see users accusing each other of likebotting as crying wolf – either there's a VPN involved, or we would have already seen it.
2. Activity period
The creation date of the accounts line up with periods of activity from the main account, and tend to fall within short clusters. 3 accounts being made 7 years ago within a month of each other, then falling under long periods of inactivity that line up with the main account isn't likely to be a coincidence, and it's not surprising that while the main account posted in the Shortstacks entry, the alts posted in its resulting threads. Alt accounts tend to become active when they're needed, and are hence easiest to pick up during these bursts of activity. Users getting flustered and using multiple accounts to enforce an opinion falls into that category.3. Account behavior
Many accounts sharing an IP is sus. Many accounts sharing an IP who have the same favourite pokemon is downright incriminating. Matching names, similar uploads, similar comments, and whatever the fuck this is are more than circumstantial evidence. We also understand that users a part of certain KYM "cliques" have similar patterns, and the pseudo-Pokemon-RP crowd loves making accounts.
Sorry to the user in question if having your laundry aired like this is uncomfortable, but it's better than being called a tyrant for following the rules. The mod team is not obligated to reveal the details of another user's suspensions/bans, and I'm only doing this because the userbase seems to think we're doing this to quell dissent. If the user in question is not, in fact, the owner of the accounts, this post will obviously be removed.
Seems pretty clear-cut to me, from the information presented.
Doeoeod wrote:
Crispy Cream said:
I request some baseline receipts here if a mod would be so transparent.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not a jannie 1984 situation. Sir Riley/Diantha/Absol are assumed to be alts of Lucky Absol and were banned for using these accounts to manipulate votes – i.e "sockpuppet" accounts. The ban is, like nearly all account punishments, fully appealable. He also gets to keep his main account because we're nice that way.
The decision to ban alt accounts is not taken lightly, because there's always the chance we're banning some unassuming user's account based on circumstantial evidence. We've had users IP-banned because of the actions of their roommates, for example. In the interest of """transparency""", I'll give you the rundown:
1. IP addresses
Accounts that match IP addresses are already pretty suspect, but this happens semi-regularly. VPN nodes, public networks, shared spaces (think campus dorms, apartments, and so on) all show up on your account, so users are bound to have logged into the same space as someone else. I know for a fact someone else on KYM has logged in from my local McDonald's, for example. The issue here is that all the accounts have the exact same IPv4 address and only this address – despite 7 years of activity each on some. This is a pretty solid indication of alt usage on its own, unless 5+ different users happened to move into the same home. It's also why we tend to see users accusing each other of likebotting as crying wolf – either there's a VPN involved, or we would have already seen it.
2. Activity period
The creation date of the accounts line up with periods of activity from the main account, and tend to fall within short clusters. 3 accounts being made 7 years ago within a month of each other, then falling under long periods of inactivity that line up with the main account isn't likely to be a coincidence, and it's not surprising that while the main account posted in the Shortstacks entry, the alts posted in its resulting threads. Alt accounts tend to become active when they're needed, and are hence easiest to pick up during these bursts of activity. Users getting flustered and using multiple accounts to enforce an opinion falls into that category.3. Account behavior
Many accounts sharing an IP is sus. Many accounts sharing an IP who have the same favourite pokemon is downright incriminating. Matching names, similar uploads, similar comments, and whatever the fuck this is are more than circumstantial evidence. We also understand that users a part of certain KYM "cliques" have similar patterns, and the pseudo-Pokemon-RP crowd loves making accounts.
Sorry to the user in question if having your laundry aired like this is uncomfortable, but it's better than being called a tyrant for following the rules. The mod team is not obligated to reveal the details of another user's suspensions/bans, and I'm only doing this because the userbase seems to think we're doing this to quell dissent. If the user in question is not, in fact, the owner of the accounts, this post will obviously be removed.
Thanks for the info. I have used a VPN before so I worry this method may be leading to other innocent users getting offed. Also are you the head mod? None of the other mods seem to talk.
Thanks again for the transparency it's greatly appreciated!
So… what exactly happened; someone please fill me in on this ongoing controversy? I can only remember the shortstack thing trending for the past several days, and now it's being censored or what?
Mods locking images and comments for no either no reason or reasons userbase disagrees with.
Sorry but locking comments and on entries is one of the fast ways to lose a trust of the userbase. And it wasn't even done as a last resort method to combat spambots or something.
AnonBlah867 wrote:
So… what exactly happened; someone please fill me in on this ongoing controversy? I can only remember the shortstack thing trending for the past several days, and now it's being censored or what?
The entry's open images and comments were short-lived.
Where did the KnowYourMeme image gallery go? I can no longer find it when I type "KnowYourMeme" in the search box.
Evilthing wrote:
Mods locking images and comments for no either no reason or reasons userbase disagrees with.
Sorry but locking comments and on entries is one of the fast ways to lose a trust of the userbase. And it wasn't even done as a last resort method to combat spambots or something.
What was the given reason for locking?
AnonBlah867 wrote:
What was the given reason for locking?
They think short women = children and thus shortstack = cheese pizza, also known as the Twitter/Australian government school of being fucking brain dead
Working on updating the Kaa Hypno and Shortstacks entries' formatting while everyone else is busy playing users versus mods
Iwazaru wrote:
Working on updating the Kaa Hypno and Shortstacks entries' formatting while everyone else is busy playing users versus mods
The difference is you're moderating effectively and one or more mods are making other mods look bad by locking legitimate galleries.
If anything, I'm more surprised mods aren't trying to like, fix this amongst themselves instead of just sitting back and waiting until users get pissed. Glad you're keeping things looking good we greatly appreciate it.
I'm still waiting on the response to what I said in the image the mods clearly deleted
I'm getting banned because IRL I have a "shortstack" girlfriend? Are you, the ones who seemed to have been saying that type of body equals "cheese pizza", even tho my gf is 23 years old?
I want to know, because if nothing else, whoever said that has lost its marbles
Also, let me tell you that whoever is managing this whole situation is fucking majorly. Going around comments sections, trying to do petty responses to the userbase is not only moronic, but it's also a waste of time for everyone here and yourselves. Even worse, deleting the images that show your petty responses. Own your goddamn mistakes
Iwazaru wrote:
Working on updating the Kaa Hypno and Shortstacks entries' formatting while everyone else is busy playing users versus mods
Living the dream.
Thrash95 wrote:
I'm still waiting on the response to what I said in the image the mods clearly deleted
I'm getting banned because IRL I have a "shortstack" girlfriend? Are you, the ones who seemed to have been saying that type of body equals "cheese pizza", even tho my gf is 23 years old?
I want to know, because if nothing else, whoever said that has lost its marbles
Also, let me tell you that whoever is managing this whole situation is fucking majorly. Going around comments sections, trying to do petty responses to the userbase is not only moronic, but it's also a waste of time for everyone here and yourselves. Even worse, deleting the images that show your petty responses. Own your goddamn mistakes
Some will say I shouldn't bother caring to explain, and some will ignore what I'm saying no matter what. But believe it or not in spite of the dreadful mod tag on my profile I still care about this community a little, so here's some actual information.
That image that the mods clearly deleted, I saw it a few hours ago and didn't think much of it, getting roasted is part of a moderator's duties.
Then I heard it had been removed. So I was curious to know which other mod had done it, as I suspected one of us had just found it distasteful and chosen to say no to it.
Well it turns out no fucking mod did anything.
Turned out someone did a little trolling, posted that pic, waited a while for it to get traction, then removed their own post and deactivated their freshly made account to make it look like a ban. Except banned accounts read as "Banned", not "Deactivated". Almost fooled me.
Now we've got two options, either perpetuate a state where regular users play war with mods based on either misinterpreted events or plain fake bullshit, or we actually try to work together. My DMs are open.
Doeoeod wrote:
Hey there, always nice to see users taking more interest in the site's management.
We're well aware of a couple issues that the userbase is vocal about. Unfortunately, these aren't really up to the mods, and require staff to act directly. Some examples include:
- Editing comments
- User notifications
- The UI redesign (we hate it too)
- "Vote-bombing"/alting/sockpuppet accounts
- Adbots
- The trending bar/gallery display issue
- Advertisements covering site content
The moderation team is doing its best to keep spam accounts, misplaced/inappropriate content, and advertising at bay while maintaining entries, but I have to emphasize that this is a volunteer effort. There is no money or staff support invested in moderating KYM – hence why mods have so little control over the site at large.
If you have any more specific feedback on how the moderators can do a better job keeping KYM stable and functional, please let us know.
>but I have to emphasize that this is a volunteer effort. There is no money or staff support invested in moderating KYM
Enjoying your Hot Pockets?
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