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Welp, I'm replaying Pokemon Platinum and so far… I remember again why I dislike replaying Pokemon games. The beginning is an utter slog. I might record it in the same vein as I did with the Monotype run of Pokemon Y… I mean, if that's okay.

Over a year ago I played through all the generations, going FireRed, SoulSilver, OmegaRuby, Platinum, White, Black2, and X, and boy did they get the leveling tree in Early Soul Silver fucked. It was the only time I have ever played pokemon in which I lost to a gym leader. When I went to fight Bugsy, I have been fighting every level 7-9 pokemon I encountered, had my pokemon up to level 10, and got bodied by a level 17 Scyther. I had to spend two hours grinding in Slowpoke cave trying to scrounge up levels from the pitiful exp you get from there before getting to level 13/14 and cheesing my way through the fight. Next route was all level 9 pokemon leading up to a level 19 Miltank. It didn't even feel like it was supposed to be that hard, it felt like it was poorly designed. Did anyone else get that feeling playing the Gen II remakes?

Hmm, don't remember that at all
though I think I'm a natural grinder in any RPG, I can't stop until I'm going to completely dominate everything ahead of me.

When it comes to Pokémon, I usually check out the levels of the Pokémon the Gym leader is using before I even challenge them, and grind up until at least one Pokémon matches that. (Also making sure its a Pokémon with Type Advantage.)

Obligate grinder over here as well. Killed or caught, there is no run. Very rarely do have to stop and train during the story, pretty much just before the E4.

Gen 2 is my fav/the one I play over most often. Your starter choice can really fuck you up though, it's sooo hard with Chikorita.

I always run from wilds unless I intend to catch them. The ideal for me is that the gym leader's highest level mon is 2-3 above all of mine when I have a full team of six, if you run from every wild but fight every trainer you will almost always end up with this being the case (except Gen II, Gen II's level scaling is weird) with a bit of a leap at the E4. However by the E4 the numbers have changed in their dynamic enough that you can beat them at anywhere from 5 – 10 levels lower depending on how good your team is and if you're using powerful mons. This is a requirement to keep the game moderate challenging not a complete cakewalk.

The start of Gen II is a real exp drought, and the early mons are varied in typing but overall weak with crappy movesets. It gives me a challenge boner just thinking about it.

@Lisa Chikorita is my favourite from Gen II, but it is objectively a hard mon to get through the game with, its stats, typing and moves don't allow it much offensive presence which virtually every other starter has, and it's one of the few things that Gen IV didn't really improve. Snivy from Gen V is like a better, faster version of it. Gen II is so weird like that tho, it's overall my least favourite but it's also a good challenge. You get weird stuff like Butterfree being really good in-game in HG/SS.

I battled every mon too but I was still underleveled. I did pick Chikorita, because I played with Cyndaquill before and don't like Totodile (I'm a heretic I know) but outside of Bugsy, I never had a problem, and "Littlefoot" as I called him remained useful once I put a Giga Drain, Earthquake and Rock Climb on him. Really, the pokemon story mode is so easy, regardless of what starter you use, you should easily be able to beat the game, the beginning of the Gen 2 remakes were the only trouble I ever had. I guess if I have chosen Cyndaquill, I would not have had problems, but in no other game has the starter choice ever fucked me.

Another thing too, I actually had to return that copy of Soul Silver for a new one because it turned out it was a bootlegged version (I bought a used copy) and the game became unplayable once you got to the third gym city, 8 hours of game play for nothing. Swapped versions and redid the first 8 hours, trying to get the same exact team as before (when I played through the gens I had a rule of only pokemon from the generation), both rules went out the window when looking for another Mareep (fav evolutionary line from gen 2) I got my first random shiny encounter in the form of a piss green ekans which eventually turned into a Golden Arbok.

Once I got to Bugsy, I figured out a trick to beat him under-leveled (aptly called "stock up on 30 potions)

I don't remember having any problems going through the main 8 gyms with regards to leveling, in part because I enjoyed grinding. If I had the opportunity to net OHKO's against wild Pokemon with a move, then I would keep that move as part of that Pokemon's 4-move set/teach that TM/HM, and grind for easy experience while looking for Pokemon. I also spend a lot of time trying to catch as many different Pokemon species as possibly in order to get a good start to completing the the regional Pokedex, so I generally set myself up to not have much problems before the Elite Four.

I did have problems with Whitney and her Miltank though. If I didn't have that Machop you can trade a Drowzee for, then I had to rely on a Geodude that I caught just north of New Bark Town on the path down from Blackthorn City. Because, of course in the remake, running down a Ghastly just meant you were about to get Stomped.

This needs some color.

Speaking of Goldenrod and not being able to get past that "weird tree" after National Park, which is one of the most chill places in video games, I remember running through the patch of grass just south of the Park and running into some weird, massive Pokemon that genuinely scared the crap out of me before running off. Right after that encounter, there was the massive, weird-looking dragonfly thing I ran into.

Of course, this was after startling the 3 Legendary "Dogs" from Burned Tower in Ecruteak City. Entei just so happened to be on that route, and I happened to get a very rare encounter from a Yanma right after that.

Ever since then, I've had a great reverence for that route. It's right by National Park, it's got hidden pathways to explore once you come back with Surf, there are a lot of rematches in the area that are fun and good for training, and there are some neat Pokemon to find there too.

Part of why Gen II is my favorite Generation.

I think I blame this series and Dragon Quest IX for my obsession with grinding, even in games that discourage or otherwise limit it.
I always level my Pokemon to ridiculous extremes, always making sure I either match or surpass whoever I'm up against next. It usually leads to the resident villain team getting completely fucked while I play a DMX or Final Fantasy/MGS song. As of recently, anytime I'm doing a lot of damage in an RPG in general (Especially Pokemon) I start blaring Peace Walker's theme for no real reason.
Hell, I love Gen 5 for this reason. I never felt overleveled and each battle I won felt like a skillful triumph. I enjoy grinding to mostly even out really stupid odds/stomp out RNG chance, mostly because I hate RNG screwing you over (DAMN YOU CRITIHAX GARCHOMP), and Gen 5 seemed to really do better about the RNG.
In fact, RNG is the entire reason I try to grind in Fire Emblem games despite them, by all intents an purposes, discouraging it. If anything, I feel like I shouldn't be hitting my enemies and praying they don't pull some janky shit. It is all to avoid bad memories of the words "Critical Hit!" in Pokemon Gold…

Funny thing, I was looking around for someone who went along the lines of a "full reverse" play through of the original Pokémon… And lo and behold I found one. Its a glitch run of course.

I figured I should share this, if only because, A) its one of those times someone came up with the same weird idea before I did, and B) because they're new and don't have many views or watchers or… Really anything.

… And I'm like, yeah, totes know that feel.

Anyways they have 4 episodes worth of this if you want to check it out.

A Pokemon Direct is set for Friday, February 26th at 10am US Eastern.

At first, I was excited.

And then I realized "Why would Nintendo release really huge Pokemon news at 10am on a weekday when everyone is at school or work?"

And then Serebii reported that the Direct is going to last 5-minutes in total.

So I'm betting it'll be something like information on Magearna, a release date on a spinoff game, something we already know about like the Detective Pikachu game for the US (which, admittedly, would be cool,) or the release date of Pokemon GO or another mainline game being set for Holiday…2017.

…wow, I am jaded.

Assuming it's the announcement for the next mainline game, why do you assume it'll be set for holiday 2017? I'm really not making the connection you are…

Depending on perspective, holiday 2017 could mean anything from January 2017 to June 2017 to December 2017.

The first because some people still have a holiday following xmas, since there's barely any time between xmas and new years so it carries over; June because summer vacation, and the last is self explanatory.

Though personally, if they're announcing it now, that pushes it a little bit sooner than I thought it would be… December 2016 sounds well within reason at this point.

Wasn't it the case that the previous Pokedirect was itself only 11 minutes long, ran through the history of the franchise and then quickly dropped the revelation of X & Y?

Again, I'm exaggerating. That was a joke.

Nintendo seems to have been delaying everything recently as of late. I guess I should just not be facetious.

Has Ninentdo ever announced a Pokemon Game more than a few months before release other then the delay of Gold and Silver?

Serebii reports that Europe trademarks have today been listed for "Pokemon Sun" and Pokemon Moon". This could be meaningless, TPC has tonnes of trademarks for games that don't exist but it is a bit funny how it's come up the day before the trailer … we'll see what happens.

Logos that have been trademarked

Masuda may have been hinting at these games on Twitter last week

https://twitter.com/Junichi_Masuda/status/700214210483990528

Could be another fake trademark, Pokemon has plenty but if they are legit, what does that make "Pokemon Rainbow"? Do dual games work under a single title, making Rainbow both Sun and Moon? Or is Rainbow not a maingame? While I would fangasm if it were the case, I seriously doubt we would get PokemonZ and a 7th Gen at roughly the same time.

Between Zygarde, Volcanion, and Magearna, Pokemon XYZ anime, and a Pokemon Z movie, I seriously doubt we are going to skip Pokemon Z and go straight to 7th Gen this year. While I feel Pokemon Sun and Moon would be great names for a Seventh Gen, I feel like it's most likely they are fake (or maybe they are for next years games) Maybe those tweets are trying to get people's attention to the fake trademarks?

Someone on Smogon mentioned that what might have been interpreted by some as "rainbow" could actually be a Japanese abbreviation of 20. In other words, it might be a code name rather than an actual version. The trademarks are proven to be legit and have very specifically-designed logos for them – something that has only happened for X & Y with this particular trademark database.

I know Rainbow is a code name, what I was wondering was if one codename could represent two games.

Assuming they're legit, I'm both excited and disappointed…. if it's gen 7. We know nothing, so there's the slim chance it's 6.5. I doubt it though. But if it's 7, it doesn't make sense… why the hell would they reveal all that Zygarde shit last year then not make a game that features it? Unless Sun and Moon are 2017 games, and Z is this year. The direct will hopefully shed light :/

Pretty much sums up my reaction.

Something interesting I just found:

The Zygarde cell being powered by the sun… hmmmmmm
Granted, it's from the Anime, but still… Nintendo is cryptic and sneaky like that.

So the Nintendo Direct today has confirmed Pokemon Sun and Moon for Holiday 2016

The Dream is dead I guess

Also confirmed is that Pokemon from the downloadable Red, Blue and Yellow can be transferred to Pokemon Bank, so no Pokemon are going to be left behind.

What the fudge is "holiday 2016" anyway? Christmas/Late November I'm guessing?

Anyway here's some stuff about Bank updates from Pokemon.com

"Major updates are planned for Pokémon Bank to work with Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Moon.

"Once Pokémon Bank has been updated, you'll be able to use it to transfer Pokémon you've caught in the Nintendo 3DS Virtual Console versions of Pokémon Red, Pokémon Blue, and Pokémon Yellow into your copy of Pokémon Sun or Pokémon Moon. Pokémon from Pokémon Omega Ruby, Pokémon Alpha Sapphire, Pokémon X, and Pokémon Y can also be brought into Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Moon in the same way.

"You will be able to use your existing Pokémon Bank account to transfer Pokémon from Pokémon Red, Pokémon Blue, and Pokémon Yellow to Pokémon Sun and Pokémon Moon. Due to certain limitations, it is recommended that you install Pokémon Red, Pokémon Blue, and Pokémon Yellow on the same Nintendo 3DS system as Pokémon Bank.

"Note that Pokémon cannot be moved directly from Pokémon Red, Pokémon Blue, and Pokémon Yellow to Pokémon Omega Ruby, Pokémon Alpha Sapphire, Pokémon X, or Pokémon Y via Pokémon Bank."

So you can't go RBY > Bank > XYORAS, you can only go RBY > Bank > Sun/Moon.

Pretty much after Thanksgiving is what's considered holiday.

I made the mistake of looking at /vp/

Because a new gen, model of a new pokemon, vehicles and a battle frontier is "literally nothing"

I feel I just got blue-balled by Nintendo. I want MOAR

But I'm excited for Sun/Moon

Do you want to get everything now so that when the game does come out, your hype is gone and you play the game, or wait and play the game still hyped?

I want Mega Solrock, you piece of cheesecake.

And Mega Flygon.

And Mega Girafarig.

Where did you see a Battle Frontier?

Looking back, it actually looks like it could be a Water Gym instead of a Battle Mansion (I call these Battle Frontiers still)

I mean…. Sure I love the hype train! But it wouldn't been bad to see at least 1 confirmed Starter Pokemon, but I guess the game is in a very early stage of development so I can't expect much.

It's a basic marketing strategy, they reveal a little at a time to keep people interested instead of all at once. We may get Starters next CoroCoro, maybe later, then a legendary even later, then maybe this gens "Lucario/Zoroark" then the main characters, then the region, then new game play elements (Those cars anyone?)

We are ten months out, assuming Holiday means Nov/Dec release, so between unfinished game and not wanting hype to die out, the amount and what we saw makes complete sense.

FYI, pre-orders for sun and moon are already available on Gamestop's website, if that hasn't been mentioned already.

While I'm 100% sure I'm getting the game an 90% sure I'm going with Moon, I want to at least see the legendaries first

@Ryumaru
You'd be surprised how many will choose Moon over Sun, if my reckoning of the current trends is any indication. (For comparison, a certain Moon themed character in a certain kid's show is massively more popular than the Sun themed counterpart).

Heck… I myself am going to choose Moon, and I could probably see that fact coming from as far back as Gen 2, when I did everything I could to get an Umbreon over an Espeon. (Despite the fact that how Umbreon is used now is almost the complete opposite of how I wanted to use it.)

Someone should probably do a survey or poll to see how many will choose Moon over Sun, or Sun over Moon.

Side note: I think the most appropriate Legendary for Moon should be Dark/Fairy. Considering both of those types have Moon and Night associations. Though to be fair, that's also a type combo I wanted from the moment Fairies came out.

@Promotional stuff.

Hey it's March now. Now you can receive Celebi from Nintendo Network if you own any Generation 6 games.
… I'm fairly certain anyone knows the method getting a Pokemon from Nintendo Network by now.

You know… It occurs to me… Given that they're spending half of the Events in Gamestop/EB Games, and half online… I get the distinct feeling that if they could, they'd probably make them ALL in store events. And that they're mostly using the online ones as downtime between restocking the stores, given that the logistics of restocking a store every month for the whole month may be a hassle.

But I'm overthinking it aren't I? Oh well.

In any case, I started Pokémon Super Mystery Dungeon yesterday (which sounds like a SNES title, why?) and I noticed it kind of has a similar quest/plot structure to a bunch of other games… Notably the "non linear" ones. Basically: Sidequest a whole bunch of times, and plot progresses inbetween sidequests, but you still have to do a certain number of sidequests to progress (or maybe just dungeons… I don't know).

Its funny because this exact method has been used in something far different than Pokémon: The PC Shadowrun RPG.

In one way, I find it interesting from a game design standpoint, since its good for making sure the player doesn't forget about the plot via sidequesting, and won't neglect the sidequests either… But at the same time… I am getting rightly annoyed that it has the GALL to force me into the main quests when I am ABSOLUTELY UNPREPARED!

Like… A main plot quest in Super Mystery had me going over and though a mountain… And I got steamrolled about half way through. Had to bring in the 3 LVL 50 rescue team to progress, because the thing wouldn't have let me bring one into the dungeon with the plot couple. So failure was the only option.

… That, and running.

So now that the new gen is approaching, I'm seeing a lot of the obligatory "IVs should go" vs. "IVs should stay" arguments cropping up again. I already briefly outlined in my post on Cyber Sleuth why that game serves as an excellent argument against IVs, and it saves time and takes the luck out of the equation. Essentially in this era of increasing convenience for the player, IVs are a stale old 90s mechanic that should die a death.

Some standard arguments in favour of IVs and why they are bad

>"It keeps each Poke unique"
No it doesn't. You can potentially acquire Pokemon with identical IVs, natures and all the rest. The uniqueness already exists in more gratifying ways such as a nickname, date caught/hatched, and other factors like shininess/personal attachment.

As soon as you set foot in a competitive environment, everything has the same relevant IVs, because players have bred them that way.

>"It's representative of genes"
Which is fine but conflicts greatly with the pro-convenience referred to previously. It does nothing now beyond deciding hidden power and forcing the player to spend time acquiring a competitively usable mon for online or battle facilities. There are already many better ways in which flavour/worldbuilding is done in Pokemon such as non-gameplay things like the Pokedex text and NPCs. This is better than forcing a mechanic on players.

>"You're just lazy"
And what if I am? I have a damn job, I don't want to breed all the time, I want to use what time I have to actually play.

It reminds me of weapon durability in Fire Emblem. Everyone said it was a series staple, but tradition for tradition's sake is one of the worst reasons to do anything, and once it was gone, many people then found the more inventive balancing better and encouraging of different equipment setups and strategy. Pokemon should take the same approach to IVs.

EVs are fine, they're good for creating varied sets and can be quite interesting. But I believe the system needs to be even more transparent, as good a move as the Super Training graph was.

tl;dr IVs do nothing helpful for either casual or core players and only slow down the process of acquiring viable mons at an expert level.

@Elgamore IVs actually kept me out of the pokemon battling scene for years, it took too damn long to get a usable pokemon. I've heard people saying that people from the pokemon company saying they want to simplify pokemon, so that might be the trigger for the discussion, since people believe it might actually happen.

Also would like to report that the various Mew glitches do in fact work, a particular one even works after you've beaten the Elite Four, so long as you haven't battle all trainers yet.

Normally, you need to walk into the line of site of a trainer who will see you right as he enters the screen. Then before they initiate the battle, hit the start menu and fly (or Teleport) away. This will lock your menu away. If the trainer has the [!] over his head as you fly away, you are doing it right. Then battle another trainer, beat them, then battle a ditto who has transformed into a pokemon with special stat of 21 (or other numbers for other pokemon) walk back into route that has guy you flew from. The menu will auto come up, close it, and a level 7 Mew appears.

I've discovered that you don't need to battle a trainer to perform the, which limits the usage of this trick. After flying from the first trainer (this is a must) you can access Bills PC and change boxes, which saves the game. Restart the game, and you will have access you your menu back. then Battle and beat the Elite Four. This skips the need to battle a trainer and allows for infinite Mews and any other pokemon, so long as you have a pokemon with the right special stat for Mew to transform into. You can even get MissingNo this way.

Note, you still need to have skipped a trainer who goes to battle you as soon as they appear on screen, meaning if you battled absolutely everyone, you are shit out of luck. I was extremely lucky in that the one and only trainer I managed to miss in the main game can initiate the glitch (for the record, I used the Super Nerd next to the Underground Path Building on Route 8, but others work too) Thanks to this glitch, I now have a Mew with an actual Nickname, something event pokemon don't allow you to do. Now I can wait until Sun/Moon to transfer it and I have my little Primia among my roster.

Figured I'd share in case someone else wants to get a nicknamed Mew, you can look up the special stat to pokemon glitch gives, but it took me a while to find the method that allows for post E4 capture.

It takes maybe a couple hours to IV train a PKMN with all the helpful items they've released over the years, it will take significantly less time than that if you already have 5-6IV males in the same breeding group to seed from.

{ I don’t want to breed all the time, I want to use what time I have to actually play. }

Who's stopping you? Go right ahead. "wahhh I don't want to IV train but I want to be able to compete on the same level with the people who doooo IV train, moooommm make it fair!!!!" Find casual friends on wifi to battle if you're admittedly too lazy to breed. Enjoy the story mode, it's made exactly for casual players like you.

{ The uniqueness already exists in more gratifying ways such as a nickname, date caught/hatched, and other factors like shininess/personal attachment. }

Which is great for casual players, but I want my PKMN to be unique in that I can fuck your day up with them online and it comes down to more than the RNG matched me up with someone whose team is to mine's advantage. They also do have nicknames. My Swampert, Congo, will fuck up your day online, and it will be very gratifying indeed.

& why is shininess okay but IVs aren't, it takes way longer to breed/chain for a shiny than it does to breed perfect IVs.

"It takes maybe a couple hours to IV train a PKMN with all the helpful items they’ve released over the years, it will take significantly less time than that if you already have 5-6IV males in the same breeding group to seed from."

A couple hours for a single pokemon, a couple of days for a single team of doing nothing but holding down a button, a couple of weeks if you want variety instead of using the same team

"Who’s stopping you? Go right ahead. “wahhh I don’t want to IV train but I want to be able to compete on the same level with the people who doooo IV train, moooommm make it fair!!!!” Find casual friends on wifi to battle if you’re admittedly too lazy to breed. Enjoy the story mode, it’s made exactly for casual players like you."

Real mature lisa. So your argument is "Separate casuals from people with no life?" Creating such a wide gap between people who want to simply enjoy a game and those take it seriously is what destroys a community. It's not a matter of "lazyness" it's a matter of people not wanting to waste dozens of hours of their life doing nothing but holding down a button and checking every few minutes just so they can play online without getting stomped.

"Which is great for casual players, but I want my PKMN to be unique in that I can fuck your day up with them online and it comes down to more than the RNG matched me up with someone whose team is to mine’s advantage. They also do have nicknames. My Swampert, Congo, will fuck up your day online, and it will be very gratifying indeed."

So the determining factor behind who wins a pokemon match is not movesets, strategy and team builds, but how many hours you can waste doing absolutely nothing? What?

"& why is shininess okay but IVs aren’t, it takes way longer to breed/chain for a shiny than it does to breed perfect IVs."

Because shininess is a purely aesthetic feature that is a good reward for those who do want to sacrifice their social life for pokemon

Seriously, all IVs do is create a wall that players have to climb if they want to enjoy the game online and does nothing but split the community into "Casuals" and "Fucks with hours to waste" in a game whose central design is to bring players together. Keep EVs, you have to play the game to get them and it's a lot faster, keep natures so that pokemon are still different, but IVs do nothing but divides pokemon players.

{ A couple hours for a single pokemon, a couple of days for a single team of doing nothing but holding down a button, a couple of weeks if you want variety instead of using the same team }

Yeah? It takes effort. Do you clear any of your other video games in a day?

{ Creating such a wide gap between people who want to simply enjoy a game and those take it seriously is what destroys a community. }

It's REALLY not that big a gap, and it doesn't stop you from playing or enjoying the game. If you don't want to be competitive, you don't have to be competitive. If you want to be competitive, you have to put in effort. This isn't little league, not everybody gets a participation trophy just for showing up. :| In what other games have communities been destroyed because of the existence of a competitive scene?

{ So the determining factor behind who wins a pokemon match is not movesets, strategy and team builds, but how many hours you can waste doing absolutely nothing? What? }

IVs are a part of strategy! You're just advocating making it one step easier because this particular strategy you've deemed not worth your precious time. It's an extra layer of EVs, if EV training is worth your time then IV training is worth your time. You only defend EV training because they implemented a minigame to make it so easy you can get done in ten minutes, if we went back to grinding would you also dismiss it as unnecessary?

{ Because shininess is a purely aesthetic feature that is a good reward for those who do want to sacrifice their social life for pokemon }

It's a fuckin' video game bruh, whether you decide to battle or compete in contests or complete the pokedex you are sacrificing time you could be socializing. You don't get to decide what's worth the sacrifice based purely on whether you personally feel like putting in the effort.

& it is especially necessary for my favorite strategies, like making PKMN as slow as possible to take advantage of Trick Room and other amazing gimmicks that can only truly work if you're willing to finesse your team at that level. That's the kind of strategy that makes a difference competitively, and you want to rip it away because you can't be assed. Sit down, really.

"Yeah? It takes effort. Do you clear any of your other video games in a day?"

IV breeding doesn't take effort, it takes time, too much time holding down a button. You know what that would be called in the story of another game? Padding

"It’s REALLY not that big a gap, and it doesn’t stop you from playing or enjoying the game. If you don’t want to be competitive, you don’t have to be competitive. If you want to be competitive, you have to put in effort. This isn’t little league, not everybody gets a participation trophy just for showing up. :| In what other games have communities been destroyed because of the existence of a competitive scene?"

Except when you go to play online in a community where half the players have perfect IVs, it does create a gap. A competitive scene in of itself does not destroy communities. When that scene is determined by playtime and equipment only and not skill, that's when trouble starts.

"IVs are a part of strategy! You’re just advocating making it one step easier because this particular strategy you’ve deemed not worth your precious time. It’s an extra layer of EVs, if EV training is worth your time then IV training is worth your time. You only defend EV training because they implemented a minigame to make it so easy you can get done in ten minutes, if we went back to grinding would you also dismiss it as unnecessary?"

No they are not. Not when it's all perfect IVs or nothing. EV training is much less time consuming because you can do multiple pokemon at once, much faster, and you do so by playing the game instead of holding down a button for 3-5 hours. That mini game has nothing to do with it, I can get a pokemon fully EV trained in 10-15 minutes using weights, Pokerus, and Sweet Scent.

The difference between IVs and Evs is that you can't max out EVs, meaning you have to put thought into your EV spread depending on what you want to do with the pokemon, what strategy and team you are running, and that you train EVs by playing the game naturally. IVs, it's just 3-4 hours of what is essentially playing Desert Bus to max out your IVs with no thought or strategy put into it.

IVs are not strategy, not even remotely.

"It’s a fuckin’ video game bruh, whether you decide to battle or compete in contests or complete the pokedex you are sacrificing time you could be socializing. You don’t get to decide what’s worth the sacrifice based purely on whether you personally feel like putting in the effort."

It's a fuckin' video game gurl, IT'S SUPPOSE TO BE FUN!!! Spending three hours battling friends, playing the story, or doing side missions is entertainment, the whole purpose of the game. Spending three hours of playing desert bus just so I can have a single pokemon that wont get wasted online is torture and has contributed a lot to people never joining the online community.

"& it is especially necessary for my favorite strategies, like making PKMN as slow as possible to take advantage of Trick Room and other amazing gimmicks that can only truly work if you’re willing to finesse your team at that level. That’s the kind of strategy that makes a difference competitively, and you want to rip it away because you can’t be assed. Sit down, really."

EVs can do that, but really, Trick Room is the only reason not maxing your IV would be beneficial (that and Hidden Power) a single strategy that doesn't need IVs existing to work, using slower pokemon and EV training does the job just as well, Trick Room is no justification.

First off, let's not be condescending to "casuals." I made this thread a long, long time ago so people could just discuss Pokemon. That can be the anime, the toys, the marketing, Pokemon GO, the games, or even the relatively small aspect of Pokemon that is the metagame. We don't get any drama here, and I do have a personal feeling of attachment to this thread and the folks who love Pokemon to not let that get started now.

Talk about how IVs are a good system for you as a competitive player, sure. We've got competitive people here. No one stands up to my Clawitzer, Alex Mack (because she hits like a truck full of Nickelodeon nostalgia). But that doesn't mean you have to be condescending to someone providing legit reasons for an alternative system or a simple criticism.

If your argument is sound, you'll never have to be condescending anyway. The logic and delivery will do the work.

• It takes a lot less time to breed than it did before with Destiny Knots and Everstones, Dittos make it easier, having males with the 5 IV's you want in a Egg Group makes it easier, yes, yes. Something being easy doesn't mean it's a good thing. It's easy to scratch my butt in public. Doesn't mean it's good.
• Let's not call people lazy because they want to do something else with their time. Let's not invoke the idea that someone's a kid who's whining to a parent. Let's be real: There's no skill to breeding. Even with things getting easier, there's no less skill needed to breed perfect Pokemon. You have your guides for competitive Pokemon and Pokemon teams all over, but you don't have to really be skilled to put that team together. It doesn't even require real work. It just takes time, and if you're making a team of just 6, you're dropping a day of daylight on it if you don't get unlucky. And considering that time is spent on rolling the dice of RNG beneath the wheel of a Mach Bike east and west along the south shore of the Battle Resort (which still doesn't have the Battle Frontier), it's less about being lazy and more about not wanting to spend your time…rolling the dice of RNG beneath the wheel of a Mach Bike east and west along the south short of the Battle Resort…which still doesn't have the Battle Frontier. It's ultimately a waste of time that varies based on luck for the opportunity to compete.

(And to be honest, I find that knowledge to be lacking. I really shouldn't win with a Girafarig against a Giratina, but I did, because the other trainer with the savescummed Legendary didn't know that Girafarig is also a Normal-type Pokemon which gave me the one turn I needed to win. That's why I loved Battle Factory. That, in my opinion, was the truest test of Pokemon knowledge.)

If it takes nothing but time to breed a team and the real skill comes in battling, then why deny competitiveness to those who just have the time? The result of a bred Pokemon is my pride, but the process of it is a pain.
 
And, well, Shininess ends up being a matter of preference. IVs are hard numbers and aren't a matter of preference. If you choose Fire Blast over Flamethrower, you will miss 15% of the time and no score any damage. If you go with Flamethrower, you will 2HKO X% of the UU metagame Y of the time. If you have one less value in Speed, you will go second, and you can potentially be just one more road bump in a sweep instead of starting one of your own. It's numbers. The only preference is to be better than the other guy, and no one really wants to be the loser.

But at least if you're hunting for your favorite Shiny Pokemon (like the Shiny Emboar with blue flames that I didn't know I was going to love before I hatched it,)

you're looking for a set of Pokemon that only you and a few other people will like. I got a Shiny Watchog in a Wonder Trade (his name is Angry Pat).

What if a kid really likes pink and wanted a Shiny Crobat? I don't like how it looks, but the kid might love it. Or you like jet black Pokemon and wanted a Charizard and Greninja? I'd claim that it is unique. Moreso than the concept well-known in competitive circles as Parahax: it is Jirachi or Togekiss with Serene Grace, Thunder Wave and Iron Head/Air Slash. It is the same among anyone running it. The intent is to run numbers that work to flinch more often than not.

Pokemon has never been about just winning. It literally says that in every game right out of the box. Some people play with Pokemon (Amie). Some people research and collect them (Pokedex). Some show them off (Contests). Some battle them. That might just be the marketing, but I do believe that. Battling is certainly part of the uniqueness of it all, but if you have a set moveset with certain stats, that's not going to be unique.

IVs are the reason why a person wins or loses. I don't think Pokemon benefits with that system, and I don't think it's the most creative way you can come up with that makes Pokemon unique.

{ First off, let’s not be condescending to “casuals.” }

Using the word casual is not being condescending. I said in my post if you don't want to be a competitive player, if you want to be a casual player, no one is stopping you, and the same holds that you shouldn't be trying to stop competitive players either.

{ Let’s be real: There’s no skill to breeding. }

No, you need dedication, lacking that is the definition of laziness.
Skill has never had anything to do with it, I said it's not hard at all to IV breed.
It's simply time consuming.

{ IV breeding doesn’t take effort, it takes time, too much time holding down a button. You know what that would be called in the story of another game? Padding }

It's called grinding. People spend HOURS doing it in every other game, for item drops, for recipe ingredients, for whatever. This literally comes down to "I don't wanna do it but I wanna reap the rewards of doing so".

{ No they are not. Not when it’s all perfect IVs or nothing. }

It's not! If you have a PKMN with shit ATK and you're only teaching it SPA moves you don't need a perfect ATK IV. & like I already said, some strategies require manipulating certain stats lower or higher depending on the gimmick.

{ It’s a fuckin’ video game gurl, IT’S SUPPOSE TO BE FUN!!! }

IV BREEDING IS FUN FOR ME~ I KNOW, THIS MUST BLOW YOUR FUCKING MIND!

{ Trick Room is the only reason not maxing your IV would be beneficial (that and Hidden Power) }

A SINGLE STRATEGY ISN'T JUSTIFICATION (oh well and there's that other move that a huge majority of competitive PKMN's strategies depend on being able to get the right HP type but that doesn't fit in with my argument so I'm tucking it away behind these parenthesis). Hidden Power is the only thing that makes some PKMN competitively viable. I don't even think you can viably run a Hail team without HP because of the type coverage. Then again it's typical for someone non-competitive to not understand why HP is so important, but that's even LESS justification to arbitrarily remove it because you don't want to put the time in!

"It’s called grinding. People spend HOURS doing it in every other game, for item drops, for recipe ingredients, for whatever. This literally comes down to “I don’t wanna do it but I wanna reap the rewards of doing so”."

No, Grinding is playing a specific part of a game for levels or money, not holding a button for four hours

"It’s not! If you have a PKMN with shit ATK and you’re only teaching it SPA moves you don’t need a perfect ATK IV. & like I already said, some strategies require manipulating certain stats lower or higher depending on the gimmick."

So 5 perfect IVs or nothing, and like two require lower IVs, one of them can still function in a world without IVs, the other is just Hidden power

"IV BREEDING IS FUN FOR ME~ I KNOW, THIS MUST BLOW YOUR FUCKING MIND!"

You must love Desert Bus then. You realize that for 99% of Pokemon players it's torture right? So your justification is that everyone must suffer so I can have fun pressing B for three hours straight.

"A SINGLE STRATEGY ISN’T JUSTIFICATION (oh well and there’s that other move that a huge majority of competitive PKMN’s strategies depend on being able to get the right HP type but that doesn’t fit in with my argument so I’m tucking it away behind these parenthesis). Hidden Power is the only thing that makes some PKMN competitively viable. I don’t even think you can viably run a Hail team without HP because of the type coverage. Then again it’s typical for someone non-competitive to not understand why HP is so important, but that’s even LESS justification to arbitrarily remove it because you don’t want to put the time in!"

Hidden Power can be redesigned fairly easily, just attach it to a personality value, problem solved. Again, you are being condescending. I do understand Hidden Power, I also understand that things change between generations as new strategies are born and old ones fade away, and I understand that Hidden Power has been reworked before, and can be reworked again. You can remove IVs and still have Hidden power work just the same.